The Politics Thread 2020

[Carl Sagan]

On 16/02/2020 at 12:48, Highgate said:

When you say Trump's approval ratings are at a record high @Carl Sagan, you mean it's at a record high for him, not compared to other presidents. His overall approval rating since he took office have been consistently low overall.  Popular among Republicans for sure. but historically unpopular among Democrats, compared to other Republican Presidents.  I can't see any mass exodus of Democratic voters in a Trump v Bernie match up. 

You are right NASA are undoubtedly delighted at Trump plans for space exploration.  Even though it's something of a vanity project for him and he disagrees with NASA scientists on most things, there is no doubt that exciting times may lie ahead.  I've praised Trump for talking to the North Koreans (although it's done no good whatsoever), but lets not forget he nearly did start a war with Iran, we were all just lucky that the Iranian retaliatory strike didn't kill any Americans..or things would have escalated rapidly.  And I wouldn't like to try and persuade the Kurds that Trump hasn't started any wars. Years of fighting ISIS was rewarded by complete abandonment by Trump...and they were chased out of their homeland in Northern Syria by the  Turks....who are now facing off against the Syrian regime. 

A special mention for that wonderful peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians that pandered to Netanyahu and ignored the Palestinians entirely. 

Sections of the media are certainly anti Trump, that's for sure.  CNN for example.  On the other hand the most popular news organization FOX News acts like a propaganda outlet for Trump.  The media is polarized...just like the whole country it seems.  I thought Yang, Harris and Brooker were all decent candidates too, it's a shame they didn't last longer. But Biden (and now Buttigieg) seemed to hoover up all their potential votes. 

I've no idea how you can claim Clinton and Kennedy were far worse than Trump regarding woman.  They were bad too for sure....but at least 25 women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct, and I'm not sure if that includes any from his tours of the Miss Universe and Miss Teen Universe dressing rooms, which he used to boast about.

As for the elites....that's who Trump and the Republican party are really working for.  See the tax cuts and who benefited in 2017 and the proposed tax cuts in the 2021 budget even as the deficit is projected to increase further and the national debt spirals ever upwards.

I take no sides but will just say Trump's approval (fairly consistent) is higher than Obama's after the same time in office: https://www.statista.com/chart/19541/approval-ratings-obama-trump/

North Korea? Thank god for dialogue. Of course there have been results.

Syria? The Obama regime and the West was basically supporting ISIS/Al Qaeda against the nasty Assad regime (because that's supported by Russia). There is no and never was any beautiful democratic Westernized resistance. Both sides are awful but one is worse that the other. The Kurds have been fighting ISIS too but basically this is a civil war and it's the best of a gazillion bad options for the West to have as little involvement as possible.

Iran? The Americans and Iraqis were forewarned over the "response" to avoid risk of casualties. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-security-early-warning/hours-of-forewarning-saved-us-iraqi-lives-from-irans-missile-attack-idUSKBN1ZC218

Israel? Terrible. Yet it's interesting that every single US Presidential candidate has promised to have Jerusalem as the Israeli capital. And then reneged. Trump's campaign team will be using the slogan "promises made, promises kept" with some of the footage from this vid in their campaign ads later in the year

There's obviously an argument that it's good when a politician actually tries to do what they promised in their campaign.

Clinton? You are joking? He forced a 21 year old intern to do things I'm not allowed to write on this forum in the Oval Office!!!! Do you have any idea how many flights he took on the Lolita Express without his security detail? Find someone who looks at you the way Bill Clinton looks at Ariana Grande ?

[Andicis]

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[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

11 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

 

I think they're going to need to be a bit more specific about which one

 

The irony of someone like Sabisky advocating for eugenics is that he is exactly the sort of weird little goblin creature that we would end up filtering out of the gene pool if his ideas were ever implemented.

[Comrade 86]

39 minutes ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The irony of someone like Sabisky advocating for eugenics is that he is exactly the sort of weird little goblin creature that we would end up filtering out of the gene pool if his ideas were ever implemented.

Bit like Hitler with the tall, blonde, blue eyed master race really. Perhaps racists and murderous despots are genetically predisposed to malfunctioning irony radars?

[Highgate]

His approval rating is nearly 44% at the moment @Carl Sagan...certainly good by his standards. Higher than Obama's at a comparable time in his presidency as you say, and Reagan's, Carter's and Ford's too probably.  But that wasn't the point was it, I think you were saying that his current popularity was hinting that some Democrats maybe be inclined to vote for him over Bernie.  I disagree, Trump's disapproval rating among Democratic voters is breaking all records for any president, and that's surely the appropriate figure to be looking at...his popularity among Republicans isn't really relevant.

Norh Korea?  Is the situation any better now than before Trump came to power? The dialogue is better than the insult trading that went before it..but that was Trump and Kim Jong Un's doing. Trump was right to try to talk instead in my opinion and it was a good decision to call off the needless and incendiary military maneuvers. But the bottom for the US was always not allowing North Korea to have a nuclear bomb.  They now have it.  And it seems there is nothing the rest of the world can do but get used to that fact.

I'd be entirely critical of  many of the US's actions in the Middle East over the last several decades.  And the UK for that matter, and other Western countries. There is nothing good to be said about Syria....but one thing pretty much everyone agrees on. ... ISIS were awful..and everyone owed a debt of  gratitude to the Kurds for halting their advance...with the considerable help of US military material and air support it must be said. But Erdogan had a chat with Trump and Trump decided to abandon the Kurds as a result....I've never really heard anyone on the left or right mount any sort of a plausible defence of that decision before.  God knows what the Kurds must think of the US at this stage, betrayed by the Bush Snr in the first Gulf War only to be massacred by Saddam, betrayed by Trump in Syria only to be invaded by Turkey.

Trust the Iranian military to hit a military base from hundreds of kilometres away and not kill any Americans in it? The same military that mistakenly shoots down commercial airliners over Tehran. what could possibly have gone wrong with an operation like that?  If any American lives were lost, Trump would have had little choice but to escalate. 

Yes, I agree Trump has tried to fulfill many of his campaign promises, although not all of them by any means.  Remember his promise to 'easily' eliminate the budget deficit or to release his tax returns once the 'audit' is over?  The problem is, he often promises awful things.  Is it something to be celebrated when somebody keeps a promise to do something awful...like rejuvenate a coal industry in a time of climate crises?  I posted the Doomsday Clock from the Bulletin of Atomic Sciences on the Greta Thread recently.  The clock stands at 100 seconds from midnight now...closer than it's ever been, including during the Cuban Missile Crisis.  The recent movement is down to Trump and the promises he has made and attempted to keep.

I've no interest in trying to defend Clinton's reputation, I don't like the man.  If you want to find someone who looks at Ariana Grande the way Bill Clinton did....then maybe you should have been around when Trump was walking into the Miss Teen USA pageant dressing rooms.  I don't think he was there to sign autographs. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html

 

 

 

[ariotofmyown]

7 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

The irony of someone like Sabisky advocating for eugenics is that he is exactly the sort of weird little goblin creature that we would end up filtering out of the gene pool if his ideas were ever implemented.

Seems incredible that this sort of racist freak can get an important job in government, not get removed from his post but resign and the moron who gave him the job seems to be under no pressure to leave his post either.

How the funk did we end up in this position as a country in just a short few years.  Ramage-gate is just all a bit silly compared to this national disgrace. Johnson wouldn't even distance himself from this freak's ideas. Can we assume he believes the same?

People on here are fuming about Radio Derby's conduct but don't seem bothered about this at all. People on this thread who like to post on most things don't feel this merits comment.

What price have we paid as a country to get Brexit done? And when are Labour gonna get a new leader to put some pressure on the scum in power?

[A Ram for All Seasons]

25 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Seems incredible that this sort of racist freak can get an important job in government, not get removed from his post but resign and the moron who gave him the job seems to be under no pressure to leave his post either.

How the funk did we end up in this position as a country in just a short few years.  Ramage-gate is just all a bit silly compared to this national disgrace. Johnson wouldn't even distance himself from this freak's ideas. Can we assume he believes the same?

People on here are fuming about Radio Derby's conduct but don't seem bothered about this at all. People on this thread who like to post on most things don't feel this merits comment.

What price have we paid as a country to get Brexit done? And when are Labour gonna get a new leader to put some pressure on the scum in power?

Cummings actively went out to look for "wierdos and misfits", and that's exactly what he's got. Corbyn is a paragon of reason and normality compared to the shower who inhabit the backrooms of power in No.10 Downing Street. I can't explain it either.

Ramage is just a prat.

[ariotofmyown]

2 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Cummings actively went out to look for "wierdos and misfits", and that's exactly what he's got. Corbyn is a paragon of reason and normality compared to the shower who inhabit the backrooms of power in No.10 Downing Street. I can't explain it either.

Ramage is just a prat.

I'm pretty sure it was deliberate by Cummings to show his alt-right credentials. Imagine Johnson was in on it too, see also his deliberately offensive comments on bumboys, watermelon smiles, letterboxes etc. There should be a select committee investigation into the selection process for advisors.

Remember when Cummings used armed police to march an aide out of the office as she spoke to a rival tory's aide? Now he employs aides with hideous far right beliefs.

 

[Uptherams]

I don't agree with Andrew Sabisky's personal opinions. But I support the notion of Cummings wanting freaks and weirdo's. We need people sat around tables discussing ideas and having differences of opinion and coming up with new ideas and ways of doing things. Sometimes these ideas will seem utterly outrageous, but it's an idea, a thought, not policy. To truly benefit, people of all backgrounds and political persuasions would have to come on-board. This is how many successful organisations and governments have operated. 

Or shall we start closing down the likes of Google, Amazon,  Apple, Tesla and Space X for the things their board members, employees and consultants say and do. Or for the awful things they do as organisations. 

Rightly so, Cummings identifies that our government has an abundance of resources and wealth. Yet why doesn't it do anything new and significant. 

Considering past ideas of Boris and present ones, I hope that anytime he and Downing street are being quiet, it is because behind the scenes they are working on significant ideas. I believe that they are taking the HS2 budget for example and if they went with offers from the likes of China, how many more projects they could also fund with the remainder of this £100bn plus budget. The bridge between Scotland and Ireland, new and expanded rail networks in the North. A new Forest. Several small nuclear power plants, a space port, expanded shipping ports. 

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

19 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

I don't agree with Andrew Sabisky's personal opinions. But I support the notion of Cummings wanting freaks and weirdo's. We need people sat around tables discussing ideas and having differences of opinion and coming up with new ideas and ways of doing things. Sometimes these ideas will seem utterly outrageous, but it's an idea, a thought, not policy. To truly benefit, people of all backgrounds and political persuasions would have to come on-board. This is how many successful organisations and governments have operated. 

Or shall we start closing down the likes of Google, Amazon,  Apple, Tesla and Space X for the things their board members, employees and consultants say and do. Or for the awful things they do as organisations. 

Rightly so, Cummings identifies that our government has an abundance of resources and wealth. Yet why doesn't it do anything new and significant. 

Considering past ideas of Boris and present ones, I hope that anytime he and Downing street are being quiet, it is because behind the scenes they are working on significant ideas. I believe that they are taking the HS2 budget for example and if they went with offers from the likes of China, how many more projects they could also fund with the remainder of this £100bn plus budget. The bridge between Scotland and Ireland, new and expanded rail networks in the North. A new Forest. Several small nuclear power plants, a space port, expanded shipping ports. 

 

Different ways of looking at things, yes, but was this person even interviewed? Did they do background checks? Did they do anything? It's sloppy at best.

As an aside, beware Boris Johnson and water-based projects. The bridge to Ireland joins the garden bridge, that cable car thing and the airport in the Thames as easy ways for some of his mates to make fuckloads of money on feasibility studies and the like.

And we ain't getting any new railway. At least not until they've built the bit from London first.

[1of4]

1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

I don't agree with Andrew Sabisky's personal opinions. But I support the notion of Cummings wanting freaks and weirdo's. We need people sat around tables discussing ideas and having differences of opinion and coming up with new ideas and ways of doing things. Sometimes these ideas will seem utterly outrageous, but it's an idea, a thought, not policy. To truly benefit, people of all backgrounds and political persuasions would have to come on-board. This is how many successful organisations and governments have operated. 

Or shall we start closing down the likes of Google, Amazon,  Apple, Tesla and Space X for the things their board members, employees and consultants say and do. Or for the awful things they do as organisations. 

Rightly so, Cummings identifies that our government has an abundance of resources and wealth. Yet why doesn't it do anything new and significant. 

Considering past ideas of Boris and present ones, I hope that anytime he and Downing street are being quiet, it is because behind the scenes they are working on significant ideas. I believe that they are taking the HS2 budget for example and if they went with offers from the likes of China, how many more projects they could also fund with the remainder of this £100bn plus budget. The bridge between Scotland and Ireland, new and expanded rail networks in the North. A new Forest. Several small nuclear power plants, a space port, expanded shipping ports. 

 

Won't this be contravention of EFL's FFP?

[Angry Ram]

14 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Won't this be contravention of EFL's FFP?

Your best ever post on here ?

[ariotofmyown]

1 hour ago, Uptherams said:

I don't agree with Andrew Sabisky's personal opinions. But I support the notion of Cummings wanting freaks and weirdo's. We need people sat around tables discussing ideas and having differences of opinion and coming up with new ideas and ways of doing things. Sometimes these ideas will seem utterly outrageous, but it's an idea, a thought, not policy. To truly benefit, people of all backgrounds and political persuasions would have to come on-board. This is how many successful organisations and governments have operated. 

Or shall we start closing down the likes of Google, Amazon,  Apple, Tesla and Space X for the things their board members, employees and consultants say and do. Or for the awful things they do as organisations. 

Rightly so, Cummings identifies that our government has an abundance of resources and wealth. Yet why doesn't it do anything new and significant. 

Considering past ideas of Boris and present ones, I hope that anytime he and Downing street are being quiet, it is because behind the scenes they are working on significant ideas. I believe that they are taking the HS2 budget for example and if they went with offers from the likes of China, how many more projects they could also fund with the remainder of this £100bn plus budget. The bridge between Scotland and Ireland, new and expanded rail networks in the North. A new Forest. Several small nuclear power plants, a space port, expanded shipping ports. 

 

If Cummings is genuinely aiming for the same lofty ambitions as you hope for, shame he didn't do a bit more due diligence first to prevent himself appearing as incompetent. Or worse.

This particular freak didn't just think outside the box a bit. He decided to repeat discredited studies to reason that black people are less intelligent than white. Racist opinions backed up with flawed science. This is why we need experts as well as weridos and freaks.

[Uptherams]

1 hour ago, ariotofmyown said:

If Cummings is genuinely aiming for the same lofty ambitions as you hope for, shame he didn't do a bit more due diligence first to prevent himself appearing as incompetent. Or worse.

This particular freak didn't just think outside the box a bit. He decided to repeat discredited studies to reason that black people are less intelligent than white. Racist opinions backed up with flawed science. This is why we need experts as well as weridos and freaks.

I don't think he particularly cares. His concerns are completely different to the Westminster bubble. Since the referendum I thought he was a bit of a bad egg but he's growing on me more and more. The amount of poo being thrown at him on a daily basis comes across only one way and that is he's upsetting all the right people and the so called 'cartel'. 

Asian Americans on average have a higher IQ than White and Black Americans. 

[uttoxram75]

2 hours ago, Uptherams said:

To truly benefit, people of all backgrounds and political persuasions would have to come on-board. This is how many successful organisations and governments have operated. 

Cummings will not allow people of different political persuasions to his own on board.

Its austerity for the majority and largesse for the few, making sure the blame for austerity is down to the poor and foreigners.

As long as you control popular media its a very easy strategy to sell to worried people who see public services, unaffordable housing and job security crumbling around them.

Worrying times with an openly racist PM and a corporate fascist guiding him.

To address the balance of rampant corporatism we should have drifted back to the left on public services, instead we've taken the route of making the less well off as the bad guys.

There's no balance to sustain a just, civilised society if we carry on down this road.

 

[Uptherams]

4 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Cummings will not allow people of different political persuasions to his own on board.

Its austerity for the majority and largesse for the few, making sure the blame for austerity is down to the poor and foreigners.

 

 

You think he agrees with everything this adviser said too? I don't think he cares who they are, what they believe in or who they'd vote for so long as they do what the job involves. Not everyone is an activist or so tribal. Many people are and will be willing to work for a government who they didn't vote for. 

Watch this space when it comes to immigration too. But then again a points based merit system will some how be bigoted. 

[uttoxram75]

10 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

You think he agrees with everything this adviser said too? I don't think he cares who they are, what they believe in or who they'd vote for so long as they do what the job involves. Not everyone is an activist or so tribal. Many people are and will be willing to work for a government who they didn't vote for. 

Watch this space when it comes to immigration too. But then again a points based merit system will some how be bigoted. 

Public services will be decimated by a Johnson/Cummings government. Anything and everything is open to profit motivated ideologies. 

Why do the right find it difficult to defend that instead of pretending its not the case?

[Uptherams]

5 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said:

Public services will be decimated by a Johnson/Cummings government.

Blah blah blah. 

[uttoxram75]

4 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

Blah blah blah. 

Thanks for the intelligent debate ?

[Uptherams]

1 minute ago, uttoxram75 said:

Thanks for the intelligent debate ?

Good luck finding someone willing to engage when you come out with such hyperbolic guff.