Norman Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, BaaLocks said: Exactly - because the Tories think everything is valued by money they equate the two. Teachers, carpenters, nurses, painters, care workers, poets, charity workers, writers, all roles that not everyone can do but in some way or other are pretty vital to our society if not our direct economy. It ain't all about the buck. Oh, and to respond to the point that all the roles listed above are somehow economically inactive - try telling the hedge fund manager who has just had a heart attack or the lawyer who needs cutting out of his mangled wreck of a car crash that paramedics are economically inactive. It's a starting salary. What's the problem? I'm a prison officer, my starting salary goes up 1600 within 9 months. I work with a Polish lad who worked in a Polish jail, he started on the enhanced wage. And it goes up every year regardless of a wage increase. Basically, I'm unskilled, but people outside of Britain can still come over on the experienced wages. Basically, out of probation. I could move to New Zealand, but they would take someone with more experience and pay them the experienced wage. It pisses me off how oversimplified people make certain policies. That's the number they earn, Tories are bad, Corbyn is amazing la la la ala a And add in emotionally charged scenarios. This thread sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Norman said: It's a starting salary. What's the problem? Take the test - pretend you are a nurse, starting salary of £24k http://www.upstart-theatre.co.uk/britquest/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Just now, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Just to clarify, the reason I'm not a WASP (presuming you're on about the discussion in the Max Lowe thread) is because I'm technically a (non-practising) Catholic! As you can imagine, I've received absolutely no discrimination in my life. Apart from, perhaps, Catholics themselves who disapprove of certain solo practices! In your case the Catholics might have a point. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said: Just to clarify, the reason I'm not a WASP (presuming you're on about the discussion in the Max Lowe thread) is because I'm technically a (non-practising) Catholic! As you can imagine, I've received absolutely no discrimination in my life. Apart from, perhaps, Catholics themselves who disapprove of certain solo practices! I'm an old git and I don't know what all these new acronyms or derogatory terms mean...…..that thread has passed me by on that front. For example the other day I nodded off and people started throwing "woke" at each other. I couldn't work it out as I thought you must have woke in order to be posting...…... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 34 minutes ago, Norman said: It's a starting salary. What's the problem? I'm a prison officer, my starting salary goes up 1600 within 9 months. I work with a Polish lad who worked in a Polish jail, he started on the enhanced wage. And it goes up every year regardless of a wage increase. Basically, I'm unskilled, but people outside of Britain can still come over on the experienced wages. Basically, out of probation. I could move to New Zealand, but they would take someone with more experience and pay them the experienced wage. It pisses me off how oversimplified people make certain policies. That's the number they earn, Tories are bad, Corbyn is amazing la la la ala a And add in emotionally charged scenarios. This thread sucks. The questioning is around whether the policy is refined enough or too "blunt" as an instrument. Sounds like your Polish lad wouldn't be admitted under these new rules and my limited understanding is that what the salary increases to is irrelevant - if it isn't above the minimum on Day 1 then tough. So it sounds quite blunt IF that's a correct interpretation. It's nothing about left/right more about applying some critical thinking to what is being pushed as a flagship policy. I'm not sure I would have regarded your profession as unskilled either - but again, I don't know if there is a definition for the particular purpose of immigration policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 My take on the new immigration rules is that they'll be so full of exemptions and special cases by the time they come in, that they'll be all but redundant. Most of the starting salaries quoted previously will likely be increased this year, so that the minimum salary of "around" £25,600 will be met. Even if they aren't, then the government will be handing out special authorisations like confetti if it means that not doing so will affect other social & economic policy objectives. This is all about the narrative of Brexit and taking back control. It's stupid (eg: the claim that 8m inactive Brits could replace migrants) but there you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 30 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: Take the test - pretend you are a nurse, starting salary of £24k http://www.upstart-theatre.co.uk/britquest/ Starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 7 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: The questioning is around whether the policy is refined enough or too "blunt" as an instrument. Sounds like your Polish lad wouldn't be admitted under these new rules and my limited understanding is that what the salary increases to is irrelevant - if it isn't above the minimum on Day 1 then tough. So it sounds quite blunt IF that's a correct interpretation. It's nothing about left/right more about applying some critical thinking to what is being pushed as a flagship policy. I'm not sure I would have regarded your profession as unskilled either - but again, I don't know if there is a definition for the particular purpose of immigration policy. It is unskilled. And yes, he would be fine. As he wouldn't come in on a probationary wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Highgate said: In your case the Catholics might have a point. ? A toilet cubicle isn't much different from a confession booth either. You go in both in the hope you'll come out lighter, having unburdened yourself. Although in the church, the priest would probably offer to help you. They're kind like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 27 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: A toilet cubicle isn't much different from a confession booth either. You go in both in the hope you'll come out lighter, having unburdened yourself. Although in the church, the priest would probably offer to help you. They're kind like that. Bloomin heck. I'm not setting foot in your church if that's the case.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said: Bloomin heck. I'm not setting foot in your church if that's the case.....? Time saving. It's keeps the period of economic inactivity to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said: Time saving. It's keeps the period of economic inactivity to a minimum. That's going to be the quote of the year. No longer will I be going out to work. Instead I shall be "strategically limiting my contribution to economic inactivity ". Boris is a smartarse so hed appreciate a double negative I'm sure......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 7 hours ago, SchtivePesley said: Take the test - pretend you are a nurse, starting salary of £24k http://www.upstart-theatre.co.uk/britquest/ Took the the test, using the last engineering job I was offered, before I became economically inactive, as the benchmark. Looks as if I wouldn't have been plying my trade here. Good job I'm a blue passport carrying, Englishmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 hours ago, 1of4 said: Took the the test, using the last engineering job I was offered, before I became economically inactive, as the benchmark. Looks as if I wouldn't have been plying my trade here. Good job I'm a blue passport carrying, Englishmen. Me too. It managers need not apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Me too but as I'm already here, that's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 It’s all ideological at the end of the day. When it was the Labour Party talking about raising the minimum wage to an amount that people could live on, the arguments against were This will have a massive impact on employer’s cost base. They won’t be able to afford it and many will go bust Minimum wage jobs are largely low-skilled, why should anyone be paid almost as much for a low-skilled job as you might get for a skilled job? All wages would have to rise in parallel but probably won’t Raising wages will increase the cost of living for all - as labour costs increase But now we’re talking about a new immigration policy that cuts off a large part of the labour supply for low-skilled jobs. Everyone seems to agree that this will lead to wages having to increase to encourage the “economically inactive” good old British nationals to take the low-skilled jobs, as we “wean ourselves off cheap foreign labour”. So why is no one talking about the same concerns? Is it really just a case of “fewer immigrants” being an acceptable price to pay for small businesses going bust and goods getting more expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: It’s all ideological at the end of the day. When it was the Labour Party talking about raising the minimum wage to an amount that people could live on, the arguments against were This will have a massive impact on employer’s cost base. They won’t be able to afford it and many will go bust Minimum wage jobs are largely low-skilled, why should anyone be paid almost as much for a low-skilled job as you might get for a skilled job? All wages would have to rise in parallel but probably won’t Raising wages will increase the cost of living for all - as labour costs increase But now we’re talking about a new immigration policy that cuts off a large part of the labour supply for low-skilled jobs. Everyone seems to agree that this will lead to wages having to increase to encourage the “economically inactive” good old British nationals to take the low-skilled jobs, as we “wean ourselves off cheap foreign labour”. So why is no one talking about the same concerns? IMO they are still valid concerns but will end up being largely irrelevant because the bit in bold won't happen, for the reasons I stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: IMO they are still valid concerns but will end up being largely irrelevant because the bit in bold won't happen, for the reasons I stated above. Does anyone know how the immigration minimum, the national minimum wage, the national living wage and benefit thresholds compare and interact? Are they at all joined up? On a sort of related topic i was reading an FT article this morning that was referring to examples that show how - although in theory the minimum wage applied - foreign domestic staff brought into the country to work for foreign nationals spending part of their time here, were effectively being kept in modern slavery conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, Van Wolfie said: IMO they are still valid concerns but will end up being largely irrelevant because the bit in bold won't happen, for the reasons I stated above. I would agree with your take - or at least hope that you are right. But then - what was it all for ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I would agree with your take - or at least hope that you are right. But then - what was it all for ? Brexit & "Taking back control of our borders", which I suppose it is, in a way, because it does give us the powers to limit immigration, even if we then choose not to - via exemptions for various industries/services Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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