The Politics Thread 2020

[Carl Sagan]

For @Highgate(and anyone else who's interested) Trump's approval ratings are at a record high, both among Republicans but also independents https://news.gallup.com/poll/284156/trump-job-approval-personal-best.aspx. You say "Surely the US can't be expected to be the greatest country in every respect all the time?" but that's exactly what most Americans think it should be! That's the go-getting American mentality for you. ?

Obviously the guy's terrible in many ways, but the media has continually spun against him so it's no wonder he hates them. It's a vicious circle both sides have participated in. For instance, the Wall was a bipartisan project started by Bill Clinton and continued by Bush with Democrat support. The "Muslim Ban" was no such thing if you read the executive order. It built on executive orders from Obama's time and never once names a single country. From my personal perspective, Trump (perhaps for reasons of being a simpleton but I don't care) is great for space exploration and has given NASA the biggest kick up the backside it's ever had, demanding human exploration of the entire solar system by the end of the century and a return to the Moon by 2024, with a permanent presence by 2028. Good on him yet he's vilified for being anti-science. Unlike his predecessors he's not started any wars, has engaged with North Korea (when Obama's administration refused to) and had made other NATO nations up their contributions (after years of relying on American spending for their security). He's had no credit for this. There are "Women's Marches" against him but there were none against Bill Clinton who was far worse (or Kennedy for that matter).

The country is very, very polarized, but I think ordinary people see plenty of the above. Many Americans I speak to do. They also see him trying to stand up to China and stuff like that and think "it's about goddam time".

When Andrew Yang dropped out of the Democrat race after New Hampshire I saw a twitter Democrat poll of "who will you vote for now?" and the majority said Trump. Of course it's hard to verify these things. I think the real Democrat problem is hypocrisy. Their message for so long has been "do as I say and not as I do". Some people will think the Clintons and Obamas were in it for themselves in that they have become mega-rich on the back of the Presidency. In the same way Arthur Scargill started with a big union and a small house and ended with a small union... You know the rest. The American dream said that if you work hard you can progress, but it seemed under the Democrats only the "elites" progressed and working hard didn't get the rest anywhere.

Bernie comes across as more authentic but is he really? I hoped Harris or Brooker or Yang would do better but they've all fallen by the wayside and it looks as if it will be a contest between old white men. Whoever it's between it will be brutal and polarizing again.

[Carl Sagan]

3 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

Johnson and his mates in No10 look if they're determined to scrap the licence fee and replace it with a subscription service. Meaning the possible loss of many of it's TV channels and radio stations including local and regional programming. Plus cutting back on it's website.

Apparently Johnson wants  the Beeb to retain the world service, not sure they'd get many subscribers to it in the UK.

The more I hear about what the tories want to do with the BBC the more it sounds as if they want to control it for their own purposes.

I just hate the corruption of the BBC gravy train. Because it's this gigantic taxpayer-funded enterprise dominating everything else it's completely distorted the UK media marketplace. Meaning we have hundreds of BBC execs paid more than the PM gets for running the country. And buffoons like Lineker on millions of pounds a year when no one watches football for him - it's for the football. We are powerless to stop this and it is wrong.

Also, because it's such an enormous organization it has pockets that seem pro government and pockets that seem anti, but because it's staffed by woke middle class liberals it's inevitably very largely anti government just as it was very largely anti Brexit. And now it's doubling down on these positions even after the government won a landslide by supporting Brexit. Basically it's sticking two fingers up to the people it's meant to serve. I would strip it down to a core of public service broadcasting and sell the rest off.

You make an important point about local radio but it does exist in the private sector. Broadcast television certainly won't exist in its current form in the near future anyway. Do you know anyone under 30 who watches it? It's unsustainable. It was a 20th century industry that people will look back on and say, "Do you remember when we had TV..." I say this as someone who sometimes works in TV but rarely with the beeb. And let me tell you, we cast envious glances at every lavish BBC green room we walk past as we go into independent ones.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

6 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just hate the corruption of the BBC gravy train. Because it's this gigantic taxpayer-funded enterprise dominating everything else it's completely distorted the UK media marketplace. Meaning we have hundreds of BBC execs paid more than the PM gets for running the country. And buffoons like Lineker on millions of pounds a year when no one watches football for him - it's for the football. We are powerless to stop this and it is wrong.

Also, because it's such an enormous organization it has pockets that seem pro government and pockets that seem anti, but because it's staffed by woke middle class liberals it's inevitably very largely anti government just as it was very largely anti Brexit. And now it's doubling down on these positions even after the government won a landslide by supporting Brexit. Basically it's sticking two fingers up to the people it's meant to serve. I would strip it down to a core of public service broadcasting and sell the rest off.

You make an important point about local radio but it does exist in the private sector. Broadcast television certainly won't exist in its current form in the near future anyway. Do you know anyone under 30 who watches it? It's unsustainable. It was a 20th century industry that people will look back on and say, "Do you remember when we had TV..." I say this as someone who sometimes works in TV but rarely with the beeb. And let me tell you, we cast envious glances at every lavish BBC green room we walk past as we go into independent ones.

Better give it away to Murdoch then.

[1of4]

7 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just hate the corruption of the BBC gravy train. Because it's this gigantic taxpayer-funded enterprise dominating everything else it's completely distorted the UK media marketplace. Meaning we have hundreds of BBC execs paid more than the PM gets for running the country. And buffoons like Lineker on millions of pounds a year when no one watches football for him - it's for the football. We are powerless to stop this and it is wrong.

Also, because it's such an enormous organization it has pockets that seem pro government and pockets that seem anti, but because it's staffed by woke middle class liberals it's inevitably very largely anti government just as it was very largely anti Brexit. And now it's doubling down on these positions even after the government won a landslide by supporting Brexit. Basically it's sticking two fingers up to the people it's meant to serve. I would strip it down to a core of public service broadcasting and sell the rest off.

You make an important point about local radio but it does exist in the private sector. Broadcast television certainly won't exist in its current form in the near future anyway. Do you know anyone under 30 who watches it? It's unsustainable. It was a 20th century industry that people will look back on and say, "Do you remember when we had TV..." I say this as someone who sometimes works in TV but rarely with the beeb. And let me tell you, we cast envious glances at every lavish BBC green room we walk past as we go into independent ones.

If the licence fee is replaced with a subscription will the BBC still have to be run as laid out in it's charter?  If not how can No10  stipulate that Radio 3&4 along with the world service be retained. 

The scrapping of the licence fee leave many unanswered questions about the BBC, especially it's ownership.

[Highgate]

When you say Trump's approval ratings are at a record high @Carl Sagan, you mean it's at a record high for him, not compared to other presidents. His overall approval rating since he took office have been consistently low overall.  Popular among Republicans for sure. but historically unpopular among Democrats, compared to other Republican Presidents.  I can't see any mass exodus of Democratic voters in a Trump v Bernie match up. 

You are right NASA are undoubtedly delighted at Trump plans for space exploration.  Even though it's something of a vanity project for him and he disagrees with NASA scientists on most things, there is no doubt that exciting times may lie ahead.  I've praised Trump for talking to the North Koreans (although it's done no good whatsoever), but lets not forget he nearly did start a war with Iran, we were all just lucky that the Iranian retaliatory strike didn't kill any Americans..or things would have escalated rapidly.  And I wouldn't like to try and persuade the Kurds that Trump hasn't started any wars. Years of fighting ISIS was rewarded by complete abandonment by Trump...and they were chased out of their homeland in Northern Syria by the  Turks....who are now facing off against the Syrian regime. 

A special mention for that wonderful peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians that pandered to Netanyahu and ignored the Palestinians entirely. 

Sections of the media are certainly anti Trump, that's for sure.  CNN for example.  On the other hand the most popular news organization FOX News acts like a propaganda outlet for Trump.  The media is polarized...just like the whole country it seems.  I thought Yang, Harris and Brooker were all decent candidates too, it's a shame they didn't last longer. But Biden (and now Buttigieg) seemed to hoover up all their potential votes. 

I've no idea how you can claim Clinton and Kennedy were far worse than Trump regarding woman.  They were bad too for sure....but at least 25 women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct, and I'm not sure if that includes any from his tours of the Miss Universe and Miss Teen Universe dressing rooms, which he used to boast about.

As for the elites....that's who Trump and the Republican party are really working for.  See the tax cuts and who benefited in 2017 and the proposed tax cuts in the 2021 budget even as the deficit is projected to increase further and the national debt spirals ever upwards. 

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

10 hours ago, 1of4 said:

Johnson and his mates in No10 look if they're determined to scrap the licence fee and replace it with a subscription service. Meaning the possible loss of many of it's TV channels and radio stations including local and regional programming. Plus cutting back on it's website.

Apparently Johnson wants  the Beeb to retain the world service, not sure they'd get many subscribers to it in the UK.

The more I hear about what the tories want to do with the BBC the more it sounds as if they want to control it for their own purposes.

Really confused about how you reach the conclusion that you have.

[Comrade 86]

[ariotofmyown]

5 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

What the actual funk? I doubt she would get through a middle management job interview at a firm that employs about 150 people!

[ariotofmyown]

17 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

just as it was very largely anti Brexit.

Interesting. My take on the bbc's performance on Brexit was it let the country down by not challenging the stuff made up by the main Brexiteers. This was either because it was trying to appear neutral when actual journalism was required, or, far from the left wing bias regularly levelled the the bbc, it's News department is full of people who used to work for right wing media. Andrew Neil case in point.

Maybe our different viewpoints prove it's worth. Maybe bbc is a better source of truth than media outlets owned by the same person who runs the evil joke that is Fox News, or the paper that hacked Milly Dowler's phone whilst she was missing, misleading both the police and her poor parents.

[Comrade 86]

21 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Maybe bbc is a better source of truth than media outlets owned by the same person who runs the evil joke that is Fox News, or the paper that hacked Milly Dowler's phone whilst she was missing, misleading both the police and her poor parents.

...to whom large chunks will doubtless be sold should he wish to buy them. So much for a balanced media. Some will only be content when every outlet carrying views with which they disagree are fully and utterly muzzled. But hey, democracy and all that jazz...

[EtoileSportiveDeDerby]

18 hours ago, Carl Sagan said:

I just hate the corruption of the BBC gravy train. Because it's this gigantic taxpayer-funded enterprise dominating everything else it's completely distorted the UK media marketplace. Meaning we have hundreds of BBC execs paid more than the PM gets for running the country. And buffoons like Lineker on millions of pounds a year when no one watches football for him - it's for the football. We are powerless to stop this and it is wrong.

Also, because it's such an enormous organization it has pockets that seem pro government and pockets that seem anti, but because it's staffed by woke middle class liberals it's inevitably very largely anti government just as it was very largely anti Brexit. And now it's doubling down on these positions even after the government won a landslide by supporting Brexit. Basically it's sticking two fingers up to the people it's meant to serve. I would strip it down to a core of public service broadcasting and sell the rest off.

You make an important point about local radio but it does exist in the private sector. Broadcast television certainly won't exist in its current form in the near future anyway. Do you know anyone under 30 who watches it? It's unsustainable. It was a 20th century industry that people will look back on and say, "Do you remember when we had TV..." I say this as someone who sometimes works in TV but rarely with the beeb. And let me tell you, we cast envious glances at every lavish BBC green room we walk past as we go into independent ones.

I agree on many points. Lineker, execs etc...but all i am going to say is anybody who wants to change the beeb and broadcasting as a whole in this country should be made to watch foreign channels for a week. The reason why bradcasting is so good in this country is because public broadcasters are so good so private ones really have to aim high. I have watched TV in several countries and have foreign channels beamed to the house to keep in touch with the motherland, broadcasting in this country is in a different league.

[Anon]

1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

...to whom large chunks will doubtless be sold should he wish to buy them. So much for a balanced media. Some will only be content when every outlet carrying views with which they disagree are fully and utterly muzzled. But hey, democracy and all that jazz...

What exactly is democratic about being forced to pay for a state broadcaster?

[1of4]

13 hours ago, Anon said:

What exactly is democratic about being forced to pay for a state broadcaster?

We regularly get the opportunity to vote in a general election. So when ever a party suggests scraping the licence fee in it's manifesto. The nation can cast it's democratic vote on the issue.

[AndyinLiverpool]

14 hours ago, Anon said:

What exactly is democratic about being forced to pay for a state broadcaster?

Paying for it or not paying for it is nothing to do with democracy. 

We are forced to pay for all sorts of things - income tax, parking, prescriptions - whether we agree with them or not.

The question should be, how does paying for a state broadcaster effect democracy?

 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

14 hours ago, Anon said:

What exactly is democratic about being forced to pay for a state broadcaster?

Even the good ol' US of A has Public Service Broadcasting. It is one of the leading producers of educational TV programs and receives a grant of $500 million each year from the taxpayer. It has a charter that is designed to ensure that programs are is free of influence from the funding source, and surveys have often shown it to be the most-trusted national institution in the United States.

It is a bit elitist and stuck up though, i.e. it does not cater to people who spend their lives watching baseball, cop car chases and right-wing shock-jock chat shows. It's not the kind of station that people who spend their days sitting on the sofa stuffing themselves with chlorinated chicken and hormone-treated beef would care to watch.

I'm sure Trump has often asked the same question as you.

https://www.pbs.org/

[1of4]

Apparently a number of tory MPs are unhappy with Johnson and No10 regarding the scrapping of the licence fee and the treatment of the BBC.

Johnson and conservative central made sure all their MPs would toe the line over brexit but when it comes to other issues Johnson may not get it all his own way. He appears to be already backing away from his proposed Mansion Tax, due to many disgruntled conservative voices.

[alexxxxx]

One of Cummings madmen has left already due to the exposure of his views. 

[A Ram for All Seasons]

29 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

One of Cummings madmen has left already due to the exposure of his views. 

Good riddance

[ariotofmyown]

40 minutes ago, alexxxxx said:

One of Cummings madmen has left already due to the exposure of his views. 

Bit over the top to blame Cummings for this. Is he supposed to check up on people he hires to important roles in the public eye, who just happens to have also posted vile stuff in the comments section of his own blogs?! What are the chances?

Cummings and Johnson probably just appointed this racist on purpose to create a storm, so they can use it to moan about political correctness gone mad. I mean, these days you aren't even allowed to use old, discredited studies to go around saying black people are less intelligent to whites.

I feel sorry for all the normal, decent Brexit voters who have this nagging feeling that gets larger and larger each time something like this happens.

"Aye up Ranjit lad, you don't think that thing about 350 quid on side of bus been used for the nhs could turn out to be rubbish too, do you?"

[Stive Pesley]

 

I think they're going to need to be a bit more specific about which one