Relegation battle

[May Contain Nuts]

21 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

You're obviously taking out your own frustrations on another poster who doesn't agree with your opinion by telling them to stop repeating the same information and also by encouraging other posters to ignore the person too. 

If you were able to post a conclusive summary to your own argument you wouldnt feel the need to do this 

Not sure what is BS about this hey ho. 

 ...and now you're my own personal psychologist! Give it a rest, you're not half as clever as you think you are. Also, drop the white knighting act, I'm sure if CornwallRam wanted to reply to me any further he would have done.

I don't need to put forward a conclusive summary to a post merely pointing out a recent example of how another manager has dealt with an injury crisis.

[Ellafella]

38 minutes ago, Coconut said:

 

1 & 2) We'll have to agree to disgaree. Frozen out means no hope of ever getting in the team and other players being picked out of position ahead of you. I'd say Paterson has now been frozen out, but he seems to be a bit of a bad egg and will be returning to Bristol shortly.

3) Apologies if you weren't one of those making sarcastic remarks about his interview style. A case of mistaken identity, it happens!

4) We'll have to agree to disgaree, again! Hey, at least you were willing to discuss it. He's improved his passing and there's evidence to show it.

I’m always happy to discuss things and I will change my view if I am shown otherwise. We disagree and that’s fine. We all want Derby County to be the best that they can be. Let’s hope things turn a corner in the new year. I will write the season off If we see green shoots coming through in Feb/March time. Interesting times ahead. Happy New Year we hope. 

[cannable]

9 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

He had the advantage of winning a lot of games during that season. Injuries always happen. Bad refereeing decisions always happen. It generally evens out. Cocu doesn't have any good runs to insulate him as he has managed the team poorly. 

Do they though? Bournemouth has 8 players make over 40 league starts that season. 

City are 14 points off Liverpool due to, in the main, Laporte being injured. 

An injury to Van Dijk will have a similar effect on Liverpool. 

[Anag Ram]

We made a big mistake not buying a first choice keeper in the last window. 

At that time we thought our centre half pairing would be Keogh and Clarke with Davies and Evans offering injury cover. 

Forsyth was reserve left back pending his recovery. 

Huddlestone was Cocu's defensive midfield option. 

The very heart of our team has been ripped apart. 

Youngsters (remember an important part of Cocu's remit) have been given a bigger opportunity than ever before with mixed success. 

This club has had a poor mental attitude for many years now. 

That was never going to be turned around in half a season. 

Cocu is not responsible for highly-paid players making ridiculous blind passes. 

What he should have, however, and what the fans deserve, is total commitment to the cause and an ethos of hard work as a team. 

That's what I am disappointed by. 

Let's get a few in and a few out. 

If it's still poor, we are in dire straits and Cocu should go, but I think we still have much to look forward to. 

[Tyler Durden]

46 minutes ago, Coconut said:

 ...and now you're my own personal psychologist! Give it a rest, you're not half as clever as you think you are. Also, drop the white knighting act, I'm sure if CornwallRam wanted to reply to me any further he would have done.

I don't need to put forward a conclusive summary to a post merely pointing out a recent example of how another manager has dealt with an injury crisis.

Let's leave it here, the one thing we do agree on is that you don't have to put forward a conclusive arguement but when you patently don't then it just invites counter arguments from other posters. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, cannable said:

We ARENT trying to persist with it though. We have been going long for about five games now. 

Well you watched a different game to me for 70 minutes yesterday.

I counted 4 or 5 times Forsyth giving it away trying to play out from the back.

A fee times Bielek and Holmes got dispossessed turning into trouble after getting the ball from a defender.

And Davies collected the ball off Hamer from pretty much every goal kick.

I'd call that playing out from the back.

It was only when Marriott came on that we started to go long.

[May Contain Nuts]

10 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Let's leave it here, the one thing we do agree on is that you don't have to put forward a conclusive arguement but when you patently don't then it just invites counter arguments from other posters. 

It's become ever more clearer that you didn't even read the original posts, because if you had done you'd see that there was no counter argument, nor have you yourself given one to the point that was being made, conclusive summary or not.

So, yeah, let's leave it there.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, Coconut said:

So basically no acknowledgement of any evidence provided for how much having multiple injuries all occuring at the same time can and has affected other (presumably in your eyes, far better) managers and to what levels their team's performance dropped.

Nope, instead you just repeat yourself.

Not bothering with you again, and I'd avise other people to do the same.

Fortunately,  I have teenage daughters so I am used to this sort of argument. 

My view is simply that every season throws up challenges for a manager. It's the same for all teams. It does affect individual results, but has little effect on the season overall as things generally even out.

My argument against Cocu is actually not directly based on results. I would be perfectly happy with the results this season if I could see a anything positive. Maybe a system which needed a sweeper and a quicker striker to work? Maybe the players not being quite fit enough to keep a high press going? A system with a few imperfections can be tweaked.

My argument is that there is no system, only chaos. He's flailing around for something that works. The chaos didn't start with the injuries, and IMO, won't end when the players return. I've been watching this club for a long time, and have yet to see a manager turn this situation around.

Also, training and conditioning have a direct effect on injuries. Managers have a significant impact on this. Is Cocu completely blameless for the injuries? Cocu made Keogh captain. Cocu instigated a team building day which ended in a pub. Is the manager completely blameless for the fallout? 

[Archied]

11 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Fortunately,  I have teenage daughters so I am used to this sort of argument. 

My view is simply that every season throws up challenges for a manager. It's the same for all teams. It does affect individual results, but has little effect on the season overall as things generally even out.

My argument against Cocu is actually not directly based on results. I would be perfectly happy with the results this season if I could see a anything positive. Maybe a system which needed a sweeper and a quicker striker to work? Maybe the players not being quite fit enough to keep a high press going? A system with a few imperfections can be tweaked.

My argument is that there is no system, only chaos. He's flailing around for something that works. The chaos didn't start with the injuries, and IMO, won't end when the players return. I've been watching this club for a long time, and have yet to see a manager turn this situation around.

Also, training and conditioning have a direct effect on injuries. Managers have a significant impact on this. Is Cocu completely blameless for the injuries? Cocu made Keogh captain. Cocu instigated a team building day which ended in a pub. Is the manager completely blameless for the fallout? 

So Steve mac was never good enough to get us promotion and sacking him was correct as much the first time as second ,, not up to the job

[cannable]

26 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well you watched a different game to me for 70 minutes yesterday.

I counted 4 or 5 times Forsyth giving it away trying to play out from the back.

A fee times Bielek and Holmes got dispossessed turning into trouble after getting the ball from a defender.

And Davies collected the ball off Hamer from pretty much every goal kick.

I'd call that playing out from the back.

It was only when Marriott came on that we started to go long.

A quick flick through WhoScored show that the centre-halves are making less passes now and Martin is competing for more headers. 

Since Hamer has been introduced to the side I can’t remember us having the centre-halves split and playing from there. 

Perhaps it’s somewhere in the middle. The centre-halves aren’t pumping it into the channel as soon as they get it but neither are they being expected to get us playing from our own third. 

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, cannable said:

A quick flick through WhoScored show that the centre-halves are making less passes now and Martin is competing for more headers. 

Since Hamer has been introduced to the side I can’t remember us having the centre-halves split and playing from there. 

Perhaps it’s somewhere in the middle. The centre-halves aren’t pumping it into the channel as soon as they get it but neither are they being expected to get us playing from our own third. 

Cheers. Was hoping someone would look up the stats. Yesterday has drained me and I dont want anything to do with football again...until Monday!

[NottsRam77]

3 hours ago, GenBr said:

Cocu was here for about a month before we started bringing players in. I suspect we will disagree but i certainly dont think any of them were Cocus players. He didnt have the time to assess the squad or what was needed and frankly it felt to me that a lot of our signings this year were made in desperation due to time constraints. 

I did partially agree and agree time was far from on his side and it might well have been a case of just getting some bodies in

but as with any these players at any club they would have been scouted by the club and infomation, data , analytics and all the rest of it presented to the gaffa to make a call 

I’m in two minds over it as u say time was an obvious constraint 

but he could have said no and we’d have been no worse off 

I’m saying that last bit slightly tongue in cheek as with the power of hindsight We’re all geniuses arnt we lol 

[May Contain Nuts]

37 minutes ago, CornwallRam said:

Fortunately,  I have teenage daughters so I am used to this sort of argument. 

My view is simply that every season throws up challenges for a manager. It's the same for all teams. It does affect individual results, but has little effect on the season overall as things generally even out.

My argument against Cocu is actually not directly based on results. I would be perfectly happy with the results this season if I could see a anything positive. Maybe a system which needed a sweeper and a quicker striker to work? Maybe the players not being quite fit enough to keep a high press going? A system with a few imperfections can be tweaked.

My argument is that there is no system, only chaos. He's flailing around for something that works. The chaos didn't start with the injuries, and IMO, won't end when the players return. I've been watching this club for a long time, and have yet to see a manager turn this situation around.

Also, training and conditioning have a direct effect on injuries. Managers have a significant impact on this. Is Cocu completely blameless for the injuries? Cocu made Keogh captain. Cocu instigated a team building day which ended in a pub. Is the manager completely blameless for the fallout? 

Nice dig at the start ? (although I'd thought it would be the teenage girls not taking on board the points made and just repeating "I want a pony!" not the other way around)

Some fair points, I had wondered when somebody would finally turn the injuries back around onto the training methods - I'm surprised it's taken this long!

I simply don't think we have the right balance in the squad to achieve any sort of style, so I'm not sure how anyone expects us to be displaying one!. We need a handful of players who we can rely on to consistently perform at a 6-7/10 level to build a solid platform, and then to add one or two bits of quality on top of that. We don't have enough of those players, and the ones who used to provide that aren't at the same standard/stage of their careers as they once were - I'm looking at Davies, Forsyth, Martin.

Alternatively we need 2 or 3 players who can more consistently put in 8-9/10 performances and win a few matches on their own and drag the lesser players up to their standard a little bit. The only player we have who's even close to being that sort of player is Tom Lawrence, and I don't think I need to say any more about him?

However the final point, trying to blame Cocu for the Joiners Arms incident and resulting fallout? Quite frankly it stinks of an unfair and unremitting anti-Cocu bias. You're probably better than that, I hope so, anyway.

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

Also, training and conditioning have a direct effect on injuries. Managers have a significant impact on this. Is Cocu completely blameless for the injuries? Cocu made Keogh captain. Cocu instigated a team building day which ended in a pub. Is the manager completely blameless for the fallout? 

We're seeing an increasing amount of hyperbole from some of those wanting Cocu out...these remarks being a prime example.

Every manager at Derby (bar Rowett briefly) has made Keogh captain. And are you seriously trying to suggest Cocu is responsible for the events of that evening?

[Sith Happens]

6 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

We're seeing an increasing amount of hyperbole from those wanting Cocu out...these remarks being a prime example.

Every manager at Derby (bar Rowett briefly) has made Keogh captain. And are you seriously trying to suggest Cocu is responsible for the events of that evening?

Yes dont you know they should have babysat all the players back to their homes and tucked them up tightly in bed. They earn thousands a week, surely it is our expectation that they should enjoy no freedom or freewill at all.

Plus dont you know its the first time ever in the history of history that a football club has organised a team building evening, with god forbid a little alcohol thrown in.....

 

[LeedsCityRam]

7 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Yes dont you know they should have babysat all the players back to their homes and tucked them up tightly in bed. They earn thousands a week, surely it is our expectation that they should enjoy no freedom or freewill at all.

Plus dont you know its the first time ever in the history of history that a football club has organised a team building evening, with god forbid a little alcohol thrown in.....

 

We clearly need to change to a military camp! It's such an astonishing question, I'm quite looking forward to his reply.

That said, he's been declaring that the very future of Derby County is under threat if Cocu stays so not sure how much of it will make sense..

[Rev]

19 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

We're seeing an increasing amount of hyperbole from some of those wanting Cocu out...these remarks being a prime example.

Every manager at Derby (bar Rowett briefly) has made Keogh captain. And are you seriously trying to suggest Cocu is responsible for the events of that evening?

Maybe he sent Tom a dickpic, and that's what distracted him?

[Sith Happens]

6 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

Maybe he sent Tom a dickpic, and that's what distracted him?

a dick pic you say?

[CornwallRam]

33 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

We're seeing an increasing amount of hyperbole from some of those wanting Cocu out...these remarks being a prime example.

Every manager at Derby (bar Rowett briefly) has made Keogh captain. And are you seriously trying to suggest Cocu is responsible for the events of that evening?

It's all part of management. You can't use events as an excuse for failure without considering whether or not the manager had a hand in them. I don't know whether Cocu did, which is why I used question marks. But to dismiss any possibility is just blind faith.

Cocu will succeed or fail by his decisions. To say his decisions are irrelevant is just ridiculous. 

And just to clarify,  I don't want Cocu out. I want him to prove me wrong and succeed. I just don't believe he will.

[Rev]

13 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

a dick pic you say?

I really miss him you know. 

Didn't think I would, but I do.