Rammy03 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 This squad is weaker than last season there's no doubt about that but it really isn't 16th in the championship level. There are a lot of teams up there with worse players. For me, it's mostly about how the team is set up. Great coaches get the best out of what they have got, cocu isn't doing that. In fact, we are getting worse every game. There are no signs of improvement whatsoever. Nothing. A lot of these players performed under Lampard, albeit with the loans, but now they just look a shadow of their previous selves. Can't pass, can't shoot. The games are just littered with mistakes. That doesn't add up. You don't just turn into a bad player within a few months. It's not just one player, it's the whole squad. That speaks volumes. We are short of quality and most importantly depth, especially with the injuries and I want cocu to get some quality through the door in January and get us back up there. I do want him to succeed and we do have to give him time. But if it's looking like this in another couple of months, he's got to go. Derby county cannot and should not be anywhere near the drop zone. Like I say I want cocu to turn this around and I believe it's possible. Maybe we'll sign some real quality in January along with Rooney and the returning injuries and maybe it will all click? Top 6 is surprisingly still possible. There's always one team that comes out of nowhere to turn it around in the second half of the season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Blimey. Some people voted ‘yes’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Blimey. Some people voted ‘yes’ If you are talking squad then maybe capable of scraping in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I answered yes, purely on the basis that if Shef U are top 5 in the PL it shows what a proper TEAM can do. And this is not a good league we should be able to compete for top 6 rather looking at bottom 6. However we would need every body fit and on top of their game and play as a TEAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I hovered over the yes button purely on the basis we've had, IMO, a cr4p season so far yet, this being the Championship a few wins and suddenly we're back up there. But a reality check made me say no. Martin, Bielik, Bogle and Lowe are the only ones standing out for me. Marriott and Shinnie are borderline. Roos - too indecisive and flappy Clarke / Davis - good on their day but getting on and too slow Malone - works hard but just doesn't have that bit of quality Holmes / Lawrence - show flashes of brilliance, then disappear. Too inconsistent. Evans - solid but not solid enough. Waghorn - works his proverbial off but doesn't convert enough. U23s - showing promise (Sibley etc) but too early for them All just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Dimmu said: Would love to read opinions from the 'yes' voters. Everyone else is just bashing the team, me included. " The reality is that I fink I'd create the right synergy to get us in the top 2 nevermind the top 6." love Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, ThePrisoner said: Now? No. Feb 1st? Possibly. With the addition of Rooney and some other ins, we could end up with a similar effect to Mitrovic had at Fulham. Not a guarantee of course, nothing is guaranteed in football but the question is a bit daft, as it's not like this is the squad set in stone to see us through the next half of the season. You’ve not read the question ,, the question was where we are now and is aimed at whether cocu is underperforming badly ,are the player underperforming badly or both ,not do I think this team is set in stone for the season and beyond, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Pretend Joinersgate didn't happen, that a few of these players don't have medium to long term injuries, that Martin isn't coming back from an illness and hasn't only scored 4 goals in his past 2 seasons. Pretend that Marriott doesn't fall apart every 2 weeks. Pretend that Lawrence isn't dogshit. Pretend that the manager had a full pre-season to prepare. What's the absolute best team we could have put out throughout the season? Where would you expect it to be in the league? Hamer Bogle Keogh Clarke Lowe Bielik Shinnie Holmes Lawrence Martin Marriott Subs: Roos Huddlestone Davies Malone Waghorn Knight Wisdom (Alternate team: ) Roos Bogle Keogh Clarke Malone Bielik Holmes Shinnie Waghorn Lawrence Martin Other players who have featured, but wouldn't make the bench Josefzoon Forsyth Sibley Bird Buchanan Dowell Whittaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 The short answer is no. The long answer is noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: For me, it's mostly about how the team is set up. Great coaches get the best out of what they have got, cocu isn't doing that. In fact, we are getting worse every game. There are no signs of improvement whatsoever. Nothing. The team he can select is getting worse every game. Since Preston, when we actually played well, we've been heading into each game with a team like the one that got hammered 4-0 at Villa away last season - inexperienced, spineless and easily out-muscled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Some players for me are. I would say Jozefzoon is top 6 quality. Lawrence definitely, if he was a bit more consistent i would say top 6 premier league. I think huddlestone is, especially once he regains that yard of pace. Can't believe we aren't playing Roos right now, although think that is more to do with Frank looking to take him to Chelsea than form. I personally don't see the fuss about bogle, think he will drop down the leagues rapidly, no pace, cant tackle, run with the ball or pass. Bloody useless. The mind bogles when people rave about him. Not sure Rooney will add much, perpetual failure wherever he has been. Overrated has been. I think it will be obvious to cocu hes got a donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazal77 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 no its not. goalkeepers are horrendous. defence is frightening, midfield is offensive strikers could be good if we had some footballers in other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Some players for me are. I would say Jozefzoon is top 6 quality. Lawrence definitely, if he was a bit more consistent i would say top 6 premier league. I think huddlestone is, especially once he regains that yard of pace. Can't believe we aren't playing Roos right now, although think that is more to do with Frank looking to take him to Chelsea than form. I personally don't see the fuss about bogle, think he will drop down the leagues rapidly, no pace, cant tackle, run with the ball or pass. Bloody useless. The mind bogles when people rave about him. Not sure Rooney will add much, perpetual failure wherever he has been. Overrated has been. I think it will be obvious to cocu hes got a donkey, really don't see him playing many minutes..in fact if i was a gambler id bet 32 and no more I read your first paragraph and thought you were serious. Thankfully the second put me straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Just now, reverendo de duivel said: I read your first paragraph and thought you were serious. Thankfully the second put me straight. I got rid of the bet 32 comment as realised that im a prime example of the lack of strength the Rooney 32 advertising is having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Don't see how it can be viewed as a top 6 squad. Last season we had 3 quality loans and yet still only managed 6th place with a point to spare. We have come nowhere near to replacing that quality with Clarke, Paterson and Dowell and we have also lost our best defender to a non-footballing reason. I reckon in the next 2 windows we need 4, if not 5 additions who more ably fit the way Cocu wants to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Forgot to put my own opinion on the post above. The absolute best case scenario, everyone fit, in form, sticking to playing the one formation / system finishes... I dunno The squad Hamer Bogle Davies Forsyth Lowe Evans Holmes Knight Lawrence Martin Waghorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Forgot to put my own opinion on the post above. The absolute best case scenario, everyone fit, in form, sticking to playing the one formation / system that's been deemed the most likely to get the best out of our players... Hamer Bogle Keogh Clarke Lowe Bielik Shinnie Holmes Lawrence Martin Marriott Finishing position: 8th-10th The team that was available for selection against Milwall, forced into the same formation/system.. Hamer Bogle Davies Forsyth Lowe Evans Holmes Knight Lawrence Martin Waghorn Finising position: 18th-20th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Brummie Steve said: Top six......no Bottom six..........probably Bottom three........possibly That's a more pertinent point. I agree that we don't have a top 6 squad, but I think it's only made bottom 6 by inappropriate management. It's also likely that it was stopped from being top 6 by poor recruitment in the summer. The manager has to take some blame there. £10m on a player with fitness issues and giving away our best keeper? Poor loans haven't helped. How much of that is attributed to Cocu is open to conjecture, but I'd be amazed if it's zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rammy03 said: A lot of these players performed under Lampard, albeit with the loans, but now they just look a shadow of their previous selves. Can't pass, can't shoot. The games are just littered with mistakes. That doesn't add up. You don't just turn into a bad player within a few months. It's not just one player, it's the whole squad. That speaks volumes. Did you actually watch any games under Lampard? With just Mount injured we turned into absolute garbage. When neither Wilson nor Mount were in the team we may as well not have turned up. Lampards team was very much carried by the loan players last year, plus Johnson, plus Bryson - none of whom are here now. Large portions of last season were also awful - our away form especially was abysmal in the second half of the season - most of the players we have now are not a great deal worse than they were last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 New Bogle New Davies Lowe Bielek Shinnie Rooney New Martin Holmes Subs: New GK, Wisdom, Malone, Knight, Lawrence, Marriott, New Winger. I think this, in my mind at least, shows me that we need 5 new signings on top of Rooney to compete at the top end of the division again. Unsure whether others think the lineup above is strong enough to move us up the division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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