Is this a top 6 team/squad

[cheron85]

6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Over 70% of the core group of players - players who have featured primarily for the first team in their Derby career - have played in teams that have either got promoted or finished in the play-offs in this division, with at least 60% of the core group having played significant roles in strong campaigns in the division.

That's naive - Yes we have some experience in there but we are woefully short of quality in certain areas - Primarily the link up between midfield and attack - We have little to no attacking flair and creativity - And that's being showcased by our lack of goals

We haven't won in 5 but a single goal in each of those games and we'd have 6 more points - We can't score goals

Also - The players you talk about - Josefzoon is within your specifications as is Bennett - Neither of those guys are going to set the world on fire and if you're starting either on a regular basis then it means you're not a top 6 side

6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

How many other teams can speak of having that level of experience within their ranks?

There are plenty of sides with as much experience as we have - Stoke, Boro, Huddersfield, Cardiff, Swansea, Bristol City, Fulham, Sheff Weds, Brentford, Leeds and West Brom - Include us and that's half the league - This league has and always will be a bit of a basket case - Every year the top 6 changes a bit which means there are loads of sides that have experience with the top 6 and/or top flight football in recent years

9 hours ago, Sparkle said:

           Huddlestone    

       Belick       Shinnie 

I'd argue Bielik, Shinnie and Rooney would be a very strong championship midfield trio

Somewhat reminiscent of Thorne, Bryson and Hughes... 

[IslandExile]

6 hours ago, Jourdan said:

It’s an absolute myth that this squad is nowhere near top six quality.

.... removed for brevity

Another manager with different tactics and a different philosophy would get this team playing more confidently and more positively and we’d be right in the thick of it.

With a different manager - Lampard, feelgood factor, highly motivated players - this squad with Mount, Tomori (both smashing it in the Premier and now playing for England) and Wilson (MOTD goal of the month, Welsh International) and Keogh (best defender at the club for a decade), Huddlestone (best passer), Johnson (most "bite"), Bryson (best runner in midfield) only just managed to scrape into the playoffs.

(OK Hudds still there, played a lot last year, but now injured and other players we need injured too at the moment)

I previously thought you reasoned your arguments but it's clear that you just have a "Cocu out" agenda. No account for the circumstances of why we're in this position. No view of the bigger picture. So who is your manager of choice? Warnock? Hughton? Pullis? Rowett?

[Mafiabob]

49 minutes ago, Rammy03 said:

Even if Frank was still here managing these players we would be doing much better than we are now

Not the question I asked.....

[oldtimeram]

We are a dog shyte team for sure 

[Bubbles]

I think part of the problem is looking at the players we are bringing in.

It may be controversial and I've touched on the subject of the poor recruitment team before but it's true.

You see many teams in this league going for promotion who go for some top players.

For example (I hate to say it) Forest who signed Grabban, a prolific striker who knows how to find the net every single season, and who did we get? A player from league 1 and a journeyman who is hardly prolific, lets be honest.

West Brom signing Charlie Austin from the prem.

They also had Dwight Gayle last year who's been linked with plenty of our rivals, why aren't we in for him?

We splash 8m on a player who played in league 1 last year yet won't spend on a profilic striker whos guaranteed goals in the Championship.

The sooner we overhaul the recruitment team and become more ambitious with our transfer plans, the better.

[IslandExile]

29 minutes ago, Squid said:

I think part of the problem is looking at the players we are bringing in.

It may be controversial and I've touched on the subject of the poor recruitment team before but it's true.

You see many teams in this league going for promotion who go for some top players.

For example (I hate to say it) Forest who signed Grabban, a prolific striker who knows how to find the net every single season, and who did we get? A player from league 1 and a journeyman who is hardly prolific, lets be honest.

West Brom signing Charlie Austin from the prem.

They also had Dwight Gayle last year who's been linked with plenty of our rivals, why aren't we in for him?

We splash 8m on a player who played in league 1 last year yet won't spend on a profilic striker whos guaranteed goals in the Championship.

The sooner we overhaul the recruitment team and become more ambitious with our transfer plans, the better.

I agree with most of that except - if whatever the issues are can be resolved - I think Marriott could thrive with good service.

I also think Bielik was a much needed acquisition. It could just be that we will get more players of that quality and that there was only time enough to bring in the one during Cocu's ridiculously short pre-season.

[S8TY]

I voted No for the same reasons as mentioned on here by many...even when we were flirting a few  points from top6 i still don't beleive in this group. I always think Goal Difference is a good yardstick..( I know its all about points ) but goal difference tells you a lot...if a side goes into the top ten with negative GD it is not sustainable whereas a side with a plus GD can climb the table much easier as can nick games 1-0...we concede far too many and don't score enough.......says it all really 

[May Contain Nuts]

3 hours ago, IslandExile said:

I previously thought you reasoned your arguments but it's clear that you just have a "Cocu out" agenda. No account for the circumstances of why we're in this position. No view of the bigger picture.

You've noticed too, huh? Not just Jourdan's posts though.

What's worse is the people who acknowledge how deep the problems with the squad go in one post but seem to be afraid of being accused them of using it as an excuse, and so totally disregard any of it in their next post!

There are definitely some people who took the team selection vs Forest in the cup as a personal affront and haven't been able to let go of the grudge.

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, Coconut said:

There are definitely some people who took the team selection vs Forest in the cup as a personal affront and haven't been able to let go of the grudge.

This line of belittling other fans views by making them out as based on a 'single off-the-wall irrationally viewed incident' is oft repeated. Easier than actually deal with the point being made! For instance Roos is only held to be a poor keeper because of the Wembley error and similar for Keogh, can't be forgiven Wembley!

Try considering that the view held is based on more than one thing.

[S8TY]

agree ...i based my opinion on Roos on more than just wembley error

[GB SPORTS]

1 hour ago, S8TY said:

I voted No for the same reasons as mentioned on here by many...even when we were flirting a few  points from top6 i still don't beleive in this group. I always think Goal Difference is a good yardstick..( I know its all about points ) but goal difference tells you a lot...if a side goes into the top ten with negative GD it is not sustainable whereas a side with a plus GD can climb the table much easier as can nick games 1-0...we concede far too many and don't score enough.......says it all really 

I Agree with what you say, however there are exceptions to this rule Huddersfield got to the play-offs and then promotion with a -ve.

[May Contain Nuts]

16 hours ago, Rammy03 said:

I admire your willingness to defend cocu in this mess but the performances have not been good enough for this club. Period. Against Preston I thought we were superb yet afterwards he decides to throw all of it in the bin and do something different. Despite the lack of quality in the side, cocu has not done himself any favours here. The football is dire and needs to improve before we sleep walk into trouble. This is the point I'm making and plenty of fans feel the same, hense the shower of boos at pride park. 

 

Even if Frank was still here managing these players we would be doing much better than we are now

Not good enough for this club! Have you heard yourself? ?

What exactly is it about the piss poor performances & record under Lampard when he didn't have Mason Mount available (but did have Keogh, Tomori, Wilson, Bryson, Huddlestone, Johnson...) that makes you think he'd be doing a better job with the current squad, which is quite a bit weaker even when everyone's fully fit, and doesn't have ANY of those players available!?

FL: 13 points gained from 11 matches. 9 scored, 13 conceded. Failed to score in 6 matches.
PC: 26 points gained from 22 matches. 21 scored, 28 conceded. Failed to score in 8 matches.

Great performance against Preston, I agree. The first half in particular. The first half in which Graeme Shinnie & Mason Bennett sustained medium term injuries and haven't featured since!

The players who were subbed on in their place were Evans & Waghorn. The only changes we made to the team for the next match (the awful 3-0 loss away at Fulham) were... oh, you guessed it? Evans & Waghorn in for Shinnie & Bennett. Talk about throwing it all in the bin!

 

[Tamworthram]

11 hours ago, Jourdan said:

It’s an absolute myth that this squad is nowhere near top six quality.

Over 70% of the core group of players - players who have featured primarily for the first team in their Derby career - have played in teams that have either got promoted or finished in the play-offs in this division, with at least 60% of the core group having played significant roles in strong campaigns in the division.

How many other teams can speak of having that level of experience within their ranks?

There are three good teams in the division - Leeds, WBA and Fulham - who should take up three of the top six finishing places, leaving three places very much up for grabs.

The difference between the other 12 teams above us and ourselves is that we are very clearly being poorly managed. It is often the difference.

We are underachieving and the manager is not getting the best out of what is largely a capable group of players at this level.

Another manager with different tactics and a different philosophy would get this team playing more confidently and more positively and we’d be right in the thick of it.

It's not a myth least of all an absolute myth. It's a matter of opinion that you may or may not agree with.

[S8TY]

4 minutes ago, WHAT DO I GET said:

I Agree with what you say, however there are exceptions to this rule Huddersfield got to the play-offs and then promotion with a -ve.

true...i also thought the division was pretty poor that season culminating in the boring 0-0 with Reading at wembley...Huddersfield had a very good player like Mooy but thought generally there squad was very average especially forward wise

[Jourdan]

4 hours ago, IslandExile said:

With a different manager - Lampard, feelgood factor, highly motivated players - this squad with Mount, Tomori (both smashing it in the Premier and now playing for England) and Wilson (MOTD goal of the month, Welsh International) and Keogh (best defender at the club for a decade), Huddlestone (best passer), Johnson (most "bite"), Bryson (best runner in midfield) only just managed to scrape into the playoffs.

(OK Hudds still there, played a lot last year, but now injured and other players we need injured too at the moment)

I previously thought you reasoned your arguments but it's clear that you just have a "Cocu out" agenda. No account for the circumstances of why we're in this position. No view of the bigger picture. So who is your manager of choice? Warnock? Hughton? Pullis? Rowett?

I have been quoted several times today, to the extent that I would lose my job if I spent time replying to all of them.

What I will say is that I have no agenda whatsoever. I would love nothing more than to see Cocu have success at the club.

I just think it’s unlikely to happen and that we are risking our Championship status by ‘sticking to the plan’.

You can call me naive, impatient, short sighted, unreasonable for believing that Cocu is not the right man and that another manager could be doing a better job.

The irony is the exact same fans backing Cocu to the hilt, calling for patience, understanding and a realization of the bigger picture will desert Cocu in a flash the moment we find ourselves in the bottom 3 or worse.

My views are well known at this point. Let’s see what happens.

If Cocu turns things around, I will be the first one to post about how wrong I was to write Cocu off after 20 games.

[May Contain Nuts]

32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This line of belittling other fans views by making them out as based on a 'single off-the-wall irrationally viewed incident' is oft repeated. Easier than actually deal with the point being made! For instance Roos is only held to be a poor keeper because of the Wembley error and similar for Keogh, can't be forgiven Wembley!

Try considering that the view held is based on more than one thing.

Try considering reading other people's posts properly before being a condescending arse!

I didn't say that was anyone's sole reason for disliking him, but it definitely has been a factor in some people's refusal to give him the benefit of doubt later down the line.

[IslandExile]

2 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

==not copied for brevity

Fair enough. Everyone is - of course - entitled to their view and it's absolutely right to discuss it. That's part of the fun.

At the end of the day, we all want the same thing - as do fans of all clubs - a successful club playing entertaining football.

Happy Chrimbo ?

[S8TY]

6 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I have been quoted several times today, to the extent that I would lose my job if I spent time replying to all of them.

What I will say is that I have no agenda whatsoever. I would love nothing more than to see Cocu have success at the club.

I just think it’s unlikely to happen and that we are risking our Championship status by ‘sticking to the plan’.

You can call me naive, impatient, short sighted, unreasonable for believing that Cocu is not the right man and that another manager could be doing a better job.

The irony is the exact same fans backing Cocu to the hilt, calling for patience, understanding and a realization of the bigger picture will desert Cocu in a flash the moment we find ourselves in the bottom 3 or worse.

My views are well known at this point. Let’s see what happens.

If Cocu turns things around, I will be the first one to post about how wrong I was to write Cocu off after 20 games.

It will be difficult to turn it round that much with who he has and with the injuries etc...i think thats what some are saying Jourdan he needs a chance to bring in his own players surely ??? if he is sacked without that oppurtunity i for one see that as quite disgusting...give the bloke a chance with at least two windows then judge him....if we are still crap then there will be more justification but to say he has to go now is being short sighted

[cheron85]

3 hours ago, Squid said:

We splash 8m on a player who played in league 1 last year yet won't spend on a profilic striker whos guaranteed goals in the Championship.

Usually I agree with most of your positions but this one we're gonna have to disagree on

We haven't had a consistent good DM since Eustace - With the breaking of Thorne we've been crying out to address that for years and someone has finally done it with (hopefully) a long term solution

38 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

This line of belittling other fans views by making them out as based on a 'single off-the-wall irrationally viewed incident' is oft repeated. Easier than actually deal with the point being made! For instance Roos is only held to be a poor keeper because of the Wembley error and similar for Keogh, can't be forgiven Wembley!

Try considering that the view held is based on more than one thing.

You and I both agree on many things it seems (a love of the great Chrissy Martin for one) But I have to admit I've turned on Roos a little now - His complete inability to judge the ball in the air is horrific and costly - He's about 3 inches taller than most other players and with his reach he should be able to deal with every cross but his judgement is poor - Great shot stopper, great distribution, poor decision making - And I think he's actively got worse this season than last

14 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

You can call me naive, impatient, short sighted, unreasonable for believing that Cocu is not the right man and that another manager could be doing a better job.

The irony is the exact same fans backing Cocu to the hilt, calling for patience, understanding and a realization of the bigger picture will desert Cocu in a flash the moment we find ourselves in the bottom 3 or worse.

If we drop into the bottom 3 I'll start to think differently - But for now it's way too early

The major problem is lack of goals - We need more creativity and supply to the forwards - I keep harping on about this but most games we're losing by the odd goal or drawing when we should have won - West Brom, Swansea, Cardiff and Milwall are all games we should have had more points - If we can get Rooney and another creative influence in we'll see those draws and 1 goal losses turning into points

[RoyMac5]

17 minutes ago, Coconut said:

Try considering reading other people's posts properly before being a condescending arse!

I didn't say that was anyone's sole reason for disliking him, but it definitely has been a factor in some people's refusal to give him the benefit of doubt later down the line.

You were the one making a point of some fans holding a grudge - you didn't make any allowance for their other reasons. You don't want to allow other fans opinions to be valid, you are the one being condescending matey.