Archied Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, CornwallRam said: That's a more pertinent point. I agree that we don't have a top 6 squad, but I think it's only made bottom 6 by inappropriate management. It's also likely that it was stopped from being top 6 by poor recruitment in the summer. The manager has to take some blame there. £10m on a player with fitness issues and giving away our best keeper? Poor loans haven't helped. How much of that is attributed to Cocu is open to conjecture, but I'd be amazed if it's zero. Thing is for me that there is not a chance on earth that cocu could possibly hazard a guess at what we needed player wise in the timeframe he had with us to make any kind of real fist of the transfer window ,coupled with the fact none of us know what the recruitment policy really is at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brammie Steve Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 If we could be certain of avoiding the drop I would like to see more of our promising youngsters being given a chance but as manager I realise it is a case of damned either way! I'd like the salary but not the pressure of knowing I'm to blame whichever way I jump and the fence is too uncomfortable to sit sstride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, GenBr said: Lampards team was very much carried by the loan players last year, plus Johnson, plus Bryson - none of whom are here now. Large portions of last season were also awful You make a fair point but the loans didn't play every game, neither did Bryson, neither did Johnson. Southampton at home in the cup springs to mind, we were pretty good. In that game we played a lot of the players that are here now - roos, Bogle, Lowe, Evans, bird, Holmes, Lawrence, Marriott, waghorn, jozefzoon all either started or played. Could have won that game easily, against a half decent premier League side too. My point was that under lampard we actually looked like a footballing side that had ideas and a clear direction whereas now, with the same players, we are absolutely clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 There is not really a lot of difference between top and bottom 6, confidence plays a big part in what is a mediocre league. That said I think people forget we scraped into the play offs last season and we followed that up by having a shocking transfer window. I said at the time we would struggle this season, I didn’t buy into this “the season won’t be over in Dec” and our jan recruit will be the saviour and throughout the season it’s unfolded that way. We have two centre backs that are at best second choice and I believe would struggle to get into any team in this league in that position. We have no pace at all in the team, our forward line is immobile, Martin has been one of my favourite players but he isn’t the answer. Lawerence is inconsistent and yet is our only match winner, our full backs can’t stop a cross coming in for love or money, Holmes is like Messi at times with the ball at his feet and Franz Carr when trying to pass it. Belick, at times looks like Veira (excuse all the spelling) and yet is caught on the ball so often. We have league one keepers and no creativity in the team. Yet as I said, two or three additions, confidence comes back and we could become a top 6 team, a new CB, some pace and a mobile forward who can play the role up top on his own would do for me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: You make a fair point but the loans didn't play every game, neither did Bryson, neither did Johnson. Southampton at home in the cup springs to mind, we were pretty good. In that game we played a lot of the players that are here now - roos, Bogle, Lowe, Evans, bird, Holmes, Lawrence, Marriott, waghorn, jozefzoon all either started or played. As did Keogh & Tomori It was also the worst performing Southampton squad / team for at least 10 years, low on form and confidence. We played them at the perfect time. Do you remember how easily swept aside we were when we played Brighton? They were in even worse form! If we're picking out single games, I could easily counter your post by mentioning the abhorrent defeat away at Blackburn where all of Keogh, Tomori, Mount, Wilson, Bryson & Johnson played, when we were the ones in form so poor we couldn't see a way back. Your expectations (not just yours) of our performances given the circumstances we've faced this season are ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Coconut said: Your expectations of our performances given the circumstances we've faced this season are ridiculous I disagree. I don't think they're ridiculous at all. You missed my point. This club shouldn't be down in 16th. Not only that but the performances have been absolutely woeful and I'm seeing no sign of improvement. I want it to improve but we just don't look like we know what we're doing. Last season we did, even when we lost. If I could actually see what the plan is and what we're trying to do, I wouldn't be saying all this. You can have average players but still play decent football in your own right. We're doing nothing of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Millenniumram said: No, it’s not. The disaster of a summer window ensured that, one of the worst transfer windows I’ve ever seen a club go through. Totally ruined us, not even a hint of the progression we should’ve been making. However, just because we’re not top 6 standard, doesn’t make us bottom 8 standard. We’re a mid table quality team imo, which isn’t currently playing like one. You really do spout some rubbish at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rammy03 said: I disagree. I don't think they're ridiculous at all. You missed my point. This club shouldn't be down in 16th. Not only that but the performances have been absolutely woeful and I'm seeing no sign of improvement. I want it to improve but we just don't look like we know what we're doing. Last season we did, even when we lost. If I could actually see what the plan is and what we're trying to do, I wouldn't be saying all this. You expect signs of progress when at every single turn we face a new problem. You expect to see a pattern of play from a hodge pidge squad of players who aren't suited to any particular style of play, and when we don't have any players with enough individual ability to drag the rest through the game with the occasional wonderstrike. You expect us not to be as poo as we were under Lampard at the times we were poo under Lampard despite not having a squad that's even as good as the one we had at the times we were poo under Lampard! I might have missed your point because I don't feel you've really got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Clever poll. 91.53% of us now have no right to criticize Cocu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Were Leicester a title winning squad ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 Are they top 6 material? No. Are they under-performing? Yes. Where do I think they would hypothetically be *if* they were all playing their best? Mid-table, upper mid table tops. Will be in danger of going down? No. Will we bother the top 6? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 minute ago, AdamRam said: There is not really a lot of difference between top and bottom 6, confidence plays a big part in what is a mediocre league. That said I think people forget we scraped into the play offs last season and we followed that up by having a shocking transfer window. I said at the time we would struggle this season, I didn’t buy into this “the season won’t be over in Dec” and our jan recruit will be the saviour and throughout the season it’s unfolded that way. We have two centre backs that are at best second choice and I believe would struggle to get into any team in this league in that position. We have no pace at all in the team, our forward line is immobile, Martin has been one of my favourite players but he isn’t the answer. Lawerence is inconsistent and yet is our only match winner, our full backs can’t stop a cross coming in for love or money, Holmes is like Messi at times with the ball at his feet and Franz Carr when trying to pass it. Belick, at times looks like Veira (excuse all the spelling) and yet is caught on the ball so often. We have league one keepers and no creativity in the team. Yet as I said, two or three additions, confidence comes back and we could become a top 6 team, a new CB, some pace and a mobile forward who can play the role up top on his own would do for me I think that sentence also summarises why Dowell has failed. Guy is basically a statue which wouldn't be that bad if he would be the only one. At the moment watching our game is like ducking expensive statue park. One of the statue moves (Lawrence) but he doesn't have a a clue when and where he should be moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 28 minutes ago, Mick Brolly said: Were Leicester a title winning squad ? Yes they won the league ? Was it a trick question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammy03 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 40 minutes ago, Coconut said: I might have missed your point because I don't feel you've really got one. I admire your willingness to defend cocu in this mess but the performances have not been good enough for this club. Period. Against Preston I thought we were superb yet afterwards he decides to throw all of it in the bin and do something different. Despite the lack of quality in the side, cocu has not done himself any favours here. The football is dire and needs to improve before we sleep walk into trouble. This is the point I'm making and plenty of fans feel the same, hense the shower of boos at pride park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 I don’t think it is a top 6 team/squad though I must stress I formed this opinion through watching us on the telly and reading my favourite posters on here views on a match they’ve just been to. There doesn’t appear to be enough ‘all for one and one for all’ for my liking. I have wondered if the squad is somehow split into cliques or whatever after the p*ss up. I sometimes feel quite sorry for Cocu as I think certain players (no names, no pack drill) are not giving their all for him, the team and the fans and he doesn’t have the luxury of dropping them due to the depleted numbers of first teamers available to him at the minute. There’s a couple of the bigger names I wouldn’t lose any sleep over if we got shot of them in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, AdamRam said: Yes they won the league ? Was it a trick question ? Yes well done no-one else has got it right yet ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, ramit said: Clever poll. 91.53% of us now have no right to criticize Cocu. Was more of a question I was putting to myself trying to get a bit of balance on my judgement of cocu and the players up to this point ,,I think where I am is that I reckon we have in the main a squad of fillers now , by that I mean players that can do a fair job if put around a few good players of prem or top level championship standard and mould in to a unit , we don’t have that spine or mini core of quality and without that these player we have left won’t cut it in promotion stakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeedsCityRam Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Archied said: Was more of a question I was putting to myself trying to get a bit of balance on my judgement of cocu and the players up to this point ,,I think where I am is that I reckon we have in the main a squad of fillers now , by that I mean players that can do a fair job if put around a few good players of prem or top level championship standard and mould in to a unit , we don’t have that spine or mini core of quality and without that these player we have left won’t cut it in promotion stakes Really good poll & one I was considering putting out. Theres been a lot of chuntering from the Sat 5pm crowd about how Cocu isnt getting the best out of his squad...I'm very much looking forward to them coming on thread & justifying how a squad shorn of Harry Wilson, Mount, Tomori and Keogh is 'easily top 6 material' (to quote one particular poster from last week) And particularly from the McClaren crew who seem to think he would get a lot more out of this bunch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Archied said: Was more of a question I was putting to myself trying to get a bit of balance on my judgement of cocu and the players up to this point ,,I think where I am is that I reckon we have in the main a squad of fillers now , by that I mean players that can do a fair job if put around a few good players of prem or top level championship standard and mould in to a unit , we don’t have that spine or mini core of quality and without that these player we have left won’t cut it in promotion stakes No worries, it was a lighthearted comment, poking fun, not least at myself, as i have been critical of Cocu at times. i agree with you that we lack a spine ATM, partly because of injuries, partly in needing a few more quality players. i have stated before though that a clever tactical motivator manager can turn an average group of players into a cohesive competitive unit and i stand by that opinion, while i do realize that circumstances and luck also play a role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViewsFromTheMiddle Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 While I think our squad isn’t the best, there’s no reason it couldn’t challenge for top 6. I mean, Preston are 3rd and they were god awful against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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