eddie Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Quote "On the populist right, there are those who now claim that the only outcome that counts as a truly legitimate Brexit is to leave with no deal. "Let me remind them: the 2016 Leave campaign was clear that we would leave with a deal. "So to advocate for no deal is to hijack the result of the referendum, and in doing so, knowingly to inflict damage on our economy and our living standards. "Because all the preparation in the world will not avoid the consequences of no deal. "So I will continue to fight, in the face of this polarisation, for a negotiated Brexit - an outcome that respects the British people's decision to leave, while recognising that there is no mandate for a no-deal exit, and that we have an absolute obligation to protect Britain's jobs, businesses and future prosperity. "But we need to be clear that if we do not resolve this issue in the next few weeks, there is a real risk of a new prime minister abandoning the search for a deal, and shifting towards seeking a damaging no-deal exit as a matter of policy... to protect an ideological position which ignores the reality of Britain's economic interests and the value of our union." Philip Hammond. At least one member of the Conservative Party isn't totally insane. Ok, two if you include Tarzan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Well the guy that threw a milkshake over Nigel Farage has now been charged with assault. I assume the same will apply to those that threw milkshakes over Tommy Robinson and Carl Benjamin now? Its not like there's no video evidence of these people clearing showing their faces. Pffft, who am I kidding... https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-man-charged-with-assaulting-brexit-party-leader-after-milkshake-incident-11725212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: Well I think you are completely wrong. If you have to resort to any sort of violence, I agree that violence is wrong - but I don't see how you can say throwing a bit of drink on someone is "violence". You're in danger of sounding like a snowflake leftie mate ? 1 hour ago, maxjam said: It will be interesting to see whether its you or I that is in the minority here. https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/iain-dale/tony-blair-responds-to-nigel-farage-milkshake/ Are you offering the view of a politician who is essentially a war criminal with a straight face?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, StivePesley said: I agree that violence is wrong - but I don't see how you can say throwing a bit of drink on someone is "violence". You're in danger of sounding like a snowflake leftie mate ? Well he's been charged with assault now so I'd suggest you need to re-evaluate your stance. Alternative, we could just accept that I don't like your opinion, in which case lemme know where you work and I'll come throw a milkshake over you every day for the rest of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Wasn’t Farage inciting not so long ago say he would “pick up a rifle and head to the front line” if he didn’t get his Brexit? Aint condoning peoples actions but you can’t exactly go with a straight face and say ‘throwing milkshake will only incite more violent acts’ when the silly bugger has said that. Problem is, you tell people to get involved with the debate but then don’t feel there views are allowed to be expressed in that national debate. So how exactly do you want people who have a different view to express themselves? The Brexit Party have even banned ch4 from their events because they don’t want to be challenged. It’s all going one way and after a while they’ll get fed up of listening to you and spill a little milk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: They must have been more predictions rather than promises! How nine of these people have been held to account is beyond me. Can't say I really agree with protest votes but Thursday is going to send shock waves through British politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, TuffLuff said: Problem is, you tell people to get involved with the debate but then don’t feel there views are allowed to be expressed in that national debate. So how exactly do you want people who have a different view to express themselves? The Brexit Party have even banned ch4 from their events because they don’t want to be challenged. It’s all going one way and after a while they’ll get fed up of listening to you and spill a little milk. Exactly my point. @maxjam has a big issue with people censoring debate - yet you watch Farage being interviewed and he doesn't answer any of the difficult questions - he just brays and smirks. And then bans Channel 4 from covering his events. But it's the disaffected guy who feels his last resort is to fling some dairy product who is the problem apparently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Funnily enough, whilst I disagree with just about everything Farage promotes, I have some grudging admiration for him as a politician. He has his beliefs about an independent UK and founded a party - Once he’d got a referendum which was his original aim he walked away from it. Then UKIP wanted him back but he saw that it had been colonised, top to bottom with the bigot brigade - he didn’t want to be associated with that .. so he starts again with another new party. I think his views are wrong and probably damaging to our economy and society but he has his personal ideology and unlike The momentum group he doesn’t hide it or occupy someone else’s nest as a means to achieve his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jono said: Funnily enough, whilst I disagree with just about everything Farage promotes, I have some grudging admiration for him as a politician. He has his beliefs about an independent UK and founded a party - Once he’d got a referendum which was his original aim he walked away from it. Then UKIP wanted him back but he saw that it had been colonised, top to bottom with the bigot brigade - he didn’t want to be associated with that .. so he starts again with another new party. I think his views are wrong and probably damaging to our economy and society but he has his personal ideology and unlike The momentum group he doesn’t hide it or occupy someone else’s nest as a means to achieve his vision. I don't know - but suspect - there might be an interesting back story on Farage. How did he come by and refine his political views, for example? I've read slightly sneery pieces that he's really only a "wannabee" member of the elite, who wasn't being let in by the likes of the Bullingdon boys. I have no idea whether or not that has a shred of truth. Some of his actions and associations appear very naive though. I mean, how dim do you have to be not to realise that hanging out rent free in Chelsea and being "gifted" £450,000-worth of support might just contaminate your ONLY message of being a "man of the people". We seem a bit stuck as a nation. Do we respect the wisdom of people who are "self made" , as seems to be the case in the US, or are we deeply suspicious that such people could only have achieved through chicanery? Do we still despite everything, admire the "landed class" as being wise, impartial, makers of laws as they appear to be above the humdrum business of money making? Or do we worship vapid celebrity, for whatever reason. I just don't know - but rational and balanced discourse seems to be increasingly rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Meanwhile if anyone is in any doubt as to what enabling the likes of Tommy Robinson ends up with - here are just 4 from the last few days https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-vaughan-dowd-racist-graffiti-salford-no-blacks-jailed-manchester-crown-court-a8917086.html https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17650519.vile-posters-of-hate-spark-fury-and-frustration https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17649133.racist-graffiti-written-outside-house-in-ditchling-road-brighton https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jack-renshaw-national-action_uk_5cde5452e4b00735a914129d We should be ashamed of the country we are becoming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, HantsRam said: I don't know - but suspect - there might be an interesting back story on Farage. How did he come by and refine his political views, for example? I've read slightly sneery pieces that he's really only a "wannabee" member of the elite, who wasn't being let in by the likes of the Bullingdon boys. I have no idea whether or not that has a shred of truth. Some of his actions and associations appear very naive though. I mean, how dim do you have to be not to realise that hanging out rent free in Chelsea and being "gifted" £450,000-worth of support might just contaminate your ONLY message of being a "man of the people". We seem a bit stuck as a nation. Do we respect the wisdom of people who are "self made" , as seems to be the case in the US, or are we deeply suspicious that such people could only have achieved through chicanery? Do we still despite everything, admire the "landed class" as being wise, impartial, makers of laws as they appear to be above the humdrum business of money making? Or do we worship vapid celebrity, for whatever reason. I just don't know - but rational and balanced discourse seems to be increasingly rare. Really interesting post. You touch on something that has been rolling round my head for the last 30 odd years. In essence bad behaviour crosses whatever class or political affiliations we all have. Posh people aren’t all nasty braying hooray’s Poor people aren’t chavvy thugs. Sadly though wherever we come from there is always the temptation to use background or politics to define someone’s character. I think the original expenses scandal was very revealing. A conservative duck pond on one side and someone’s boyfriends damp proof course on another. If i’ve learned anything in my life it’s that the good and the bad in humanity has nothing to do with taste, mainstream politics, class, or relative wealth. Poo smells .. no matter who’s it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, StivePesley said: Meanwhile if anyone is in any doubt as to what enabling the likes of Tommy Robinson ends up with - here are just 4 from the last few days https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-vaughan-dowd-racist-graffiti-salford-no-blacks-jailed-manchester-crown-court-a8917086.html https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17650519.vile-posters-of-hate-spark-fury-and-frustration https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17649133.racist-graffiti-written-outside-house-in-ditchling-road-brighton https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jack-renshaw-national-action_uk_5cde5452e4b00735a914129d We should be ashamed of the country we are becoming So racists get caught doing racist things and are thrown in jail. The system works? We're repeatedly told its 'not all muslims' (its not!) it's also not all Tommy Robinson supporters (no really, its not) and feeling 'ashamed of the country we are becoming' is just virtue signalling. But thats as much as I'm willing to say as I can't offer a counter argument without breaking forum rules. I could mention a couple of stories from the past few days but due to over sensitivity around the subject I won't - I value my forum membership to much. So pat yourself on the back and award yourself whatever internet points you feel you deserve ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, maxjam said: So racists get caught doing racist things and are thrown in jail. The system works? We're repeatedly told its 'not all muslims' (its not!) it's also not all Tommy Robinson supporters (no really, its not) and feeling 'ashamed of the country we are becoming' is just virtue signalling. But thats as much as I'm willing to say as I can't offer a counter argument without breaking forum rules. I could mention a couple of stories from the past few days but due to over sensitivity around the subject I won't - I value my forum membership to much. So pat yourself on the back and award yourself whatever internet points you feel you deserve ? I'm sure that not all Nazis were war criminals either. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, eddie said: I'm sure that not all Nazis were war criminals either. What's your point? I think its obvious what my point is, whats yours? (Other than to troll) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 4 hours ago, StivePesley said: Meanwhile if anyone is in any doubt as to what enabling the likes of Tommy Robinson ends up with - here are just 4 from the last few days https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/brexit-vaughan-dowd-racist-graffiti-salford-no-blacks-jailed-manchester-crown-court-a8917086.html https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17650519.vile-posters-of-hate-spark-fury-and-frustration https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/17649133.racist-graffiti-written-outside-house-in-ditchling-road-brighton https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jack-renshaw-national-action_uk_5cde5452e4b00735a914129d We should be ashamed of the country we are becoming Why should we be ashamed of the country? Name me a country where this sort of thing doesn't happen? I'd be ashamed if it was me or one of my family doing it, but I'm not going to be ashamed of some stupid morons I've never met doing something like this. We are one of the most culturally diverse and tolerant countries on the planet, not sure why you would be ashamed of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: I think its obvious what my point is, whats yours? (Other than to troll) Your point seemed to be "I could post something that would convince you, but it's a secret or David won't let me". You really ought to chill. You're not lactose-intolerant, are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, eddie said: Your point seemed to be "I could post something that would convince you, but it's a secret or David won't let me". You really ought to chill. You're not lactose-intolerant, are you? Kinda, although I don't think I could post anything that would change @StivePesley mind ? In an ideal world I would have liked to have added something to the conversation from an other perspective but as talking about religion is against forum policies, its better just left well alone. It has also been pointed out to me that unless everyone has a base knowledge of understanding about such sensitive topics it can easily be misconstrued as racism - so yeah in simple terms and quite rightly @David won't let me! Kinda sad how both you and @StivePesley often like to end with casual insults, albeit very tame. I'll be sure never to rise to the bait or respond in kind ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, maxjam said: Kinda, although I don't think I could post anything that would change @StivePesley mind ? In an ideal world I would have liked to have added something to the conversation from an other perspective but as talking about religion is against forum policies, its better just left well alone. It has also been pointed out to me that unless everyone has a base knowledge of understanding about such sensitive topics it can easily be misconstrued as racism - so yeah in simple terms and quite rightly @David won't let me! Kinda sad how both you and @StivePesley often like to end with casual insults, albeit very tame. I'll be sure never to rise to the bait or respond in kind. Please identify the 'casual insult' in my post. I can detect a phrase that is quite clearly supposed to be a joke, albeit one that is at your expense and which ties in closely with milky projectiles (which I do not support). Are you actually suggesting that 'hard Brexiteers' such as yourself have no sense of humour? I really can't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 40 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Why should we be ashamed of the country? Name me a country where this sort of thing doesn't happen? I'd be ashamed if it was me or one of my family doing it, but I'm not going to be ashamed of some stupid morons I've never met doing something like this. We are one of the most culturally diverse and tolerant countries on the planet, not sure why you would be ashamed of that. Because he and Eddie are desperate, and i mean desperate, for their agenda to be correct. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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