The Politics Thread 2019

[ronnieronalde]

28 minutes ago, cstand said:

This election is about one issue normal folk v anti democratic remainers.

The only thing you've done on this thread as far as I can is insinuate or directly post that remainers are stupid and anti democratic.

I'm neither stupid nor anti democratic.

I'm only surprised you've not changed the word to remoaners or some other clever (!?!?!?!) play on words.

FFS, I voted remain. Once "I" lost that vote I wasn't happy but let's get it sorted, let's get out.

The fact folk  are still saying lets plough on regardless is frightening. You've seen the mess we're in trying to get to this stage, you've seen how much it's cost both financially and in terms of damaging our countries image inside and outside of our own shores, you've seen the uprising in racism, reverse racism, confrontation from both sides, you've seen that we lack the politicians capable of sorting this mess out but STILL all you want to do is throw garbage cheap labels at "anti democratic remainers"

"Plough on, it's what 17,6m of us voted for two years ago. Plough on, it doesn't matter now whether it's right or wrong, just plough on"

FFS the whole point of a democracy is people are entitled to change their mind. I think it was one of those incredibly democratic leavers who said that.

We need to pause, we need to give ourselves more time, we need someone, anyone to sort out the terms of the deal so that the average person on the street doesn't go backwards financially, once we've got that and only once we've got that then we should leave and I'll be flag waving and celebrating with you. 

If we can't get that deal, cancel it. Stay. 

 

** we should NOT have invoked Article 50 as quickly as we did. We should have negotiated the deal THEN invoked Article 50. We stupidly put the clock on ourselves on such an important issue having no idea where to start. Unforgivable.

 

[McRamFan]

34 minutes ago, cstand said:

This election is about one issue normal folk v anti democratic remainers.

Hmm, how do you explain that the leave parties have been found to have broken the law, farage now being investigated, and the huge groundswell by people who voted leave now feeling betrayed.

For the umpteen time, I ask this question, with actual facts, please explain how leaving the EU will benefit the UK? Where will we get a better deal? How are we going to replace the immigrants that have come over and work, primarily, in the NHS and care homes?

Democracy is the ability to change your mind, once all the facts are known.  Ploughing on regardless to an edge of a cliff is a game released by Saga.

 

[McRamFan]

Is this the first major casualty of Brexit, some thing so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48365241

British Steel enters insolvency -

British Steel's troubles have been linked to a slump in orders from European customers ‎due to uncertainty over the Brexit process.

The firm has also been struggling with the weakness of the pound since the EU referendum in June 2016 and the escalating US-China trade war.

Admittedly BS has always struggled, mainly due to the fact that it was always under cut by cheap and less quality Chinese steel.

[SSD]

5 minutes ago, McRamFan said:

Is this the first major casualty of Brexit, some thing so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48365241

British Steel enters insolvency -

British Steel's troubles have been linked to a slump in orders from European customers ‎due to uncertainty over the Brexit process.

The firm has also been struggling with the weakness of the pound since the EU referendum in June 2016 and the escalating US-China trade war.

Admittedly BS has always struggled, mainly due to the fact that it was always under cut by cheap and less quality Chinese steel.

So the government are will to risk potentially 20,000 peoples jobs for the sake of £75 million? How much will it cost for these people to be placed on benefits, finding new work. This would also make Scunthorpe even more of a ghost town, affecting more local businesses because folks won't be able to spend. There's so much of a chain reaction in a negative way and the government fail to realise this. All for £75 million. How much did the City of London receive when the banks went bust? Why not take ownership of British Steel to secure work and then have a proper legacy for the future? I thought the Tories were big on promoting British industry or aren't they bothering because it's not inside the M25.   

[ronnieronalde]

5 minutes ago, SouthStandDan said:

So the government are will to risk potentially 20,000 peoples jobs for the sake of £75 million? How much will it cost for these people to be placed on benefits, finding new work. This would also make Scunthorpe even more of a ghost town, affecting more local businesses because folks won't be able to spend. There's so much of a chain reaction in a negative way and the government fail to realise this. All for £75 million. How much did the City of London receive when the banks went bust? Why not take ownership of British Steel to secure work and then have a proper legacy for the future? I thought the Tories were big on promoting British industry or aren't they bothering because it's not inside the M25.   

Less than 1/10th of what they gave the DUP to secure a majority. To keep 330 conservative MP's in power, not to keep them in a job, to keep them at the top table.

duck me. The sheer stupidity of our government is frightening  - and being totally neutral I think it could be any of the main parties and they'd all screw it up.

[alexxxxx]

basic, simple, everyday questions related to the RoI/UK border.

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Hmm, how do you explain that the leave parties have been found to have broken the law, farage now being investigated, and the huge groundswell by people who voted leave now feeling betrayed.

Broke the law by going over their £7m campaign spending limit. Just remind me how much them Remain leaflets cost but we're conveniently omitted from the Remain campaign expenditure?

For the umpteen time, I ask this question, with actual facts, please explain how leaving the EU will benefit the UK? Where will we get a better deal?

Impossible to say until anything is actually allowed to happen. But let's start with the contributions we will no longer have to make. Can turn away economic migrants. MAY get better trade deals with the rest of the world. Take back our fishing waters. No longer be burdened with the CAP.

How are we going to replace the immigrants that have come over and work, primarily, in the NHS and care homes?

Why do we need to replace them? Immigration is not going to be stopped, it's going to be controlled.

Democracy is the ability to change your mind, once all the facts are known.  Ploughing on regardless to an edge of a cliff is a game released by Saga.

The facts are never going to be known prior to use actually leaving though, so basically you are saying we should stay in forever no matter what. Now that's proper madness. 

 

[Comrade 86]

4 hours ago, McRamFan said:

A brexiteer, arguing with a brexiteer...you really cannot make this poo up.

 

This shouldn't have made me laugh but it properly did.

[McRamFan]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Broke the law by going over their £7m campaign spending limit. Just remind me how much them Remain leaflets cost but we're conveniently omitted from the Remain campaign expenditure?

Wrong.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/campaign-spending-and-donations-at-referendums/campaign-spending-at-the-eu-referendum

Remain spent more.  Please at least know the facts.

28 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Impossible to say until anything is actually allowed to happen. But let's start with the contributions we will no longer have to make. Can turn away economic migrants. MAY get better trade deals with the rest of the world. Take back our fishing waters. No longer be burdened with the CAP.

So you are voting for something you know sfa about.  As for the fishing waters, they will get sold off to the highest bidder, similar to what Greenland did when they left.  We won't get a better deal, that is basic economics.  If a company in a country is selling,  the customer that can buy the most will get the better deal.

 

34 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The facts are never going to be known prior to use actually leaving though, so basically you are saying we should stay in forever no matter what. Now that's proper madness. 

I did not say that, but hey feel free to make poo up.  Somethings never change.

[McRamFan]

3 minutes ago, 86 points said:

This shouldn't have made me laugh but it properly did.

Ditto

[ronnieronalde]

52 minutes ago, 86 points said:

This shouldn't have made me laugh but it properly did.

I clearly don't agree with the fact we're leaving. I can't make that more obvious but....

I think SHE was out of order, she's sabotaged an interview she wasn't meant to be in and she's tried to rile the guy as much as she can. I thought he handled it quite well to be fair. It mus be so tough to keep cool when you're faced with someone like that.

The fact they're both on the same side doesn't make me laugh, it makes me want to cry.

I don't think it's an over dramatic exaggeration from me when I say we're ducked as a country. I'm  genuinely fearful for the next few months in terms of at some point soon at one of these rallies it's going to properly kick off. Then what do we do? Which side do the Police "defend" and which side do they attack when everyone is getting violent?

A "civil war" in the UK in the 21st century? Crazy? I wouldn't be so sure.

I hope David Cameron is proud.

[Stive Pesley]

34 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I think SHE was out of order, she's sabotaged an interview she wasn't meant to be in and she's tried to rile the guy as much as she can.

Even ignoring the content of what she said - it was clear from the fact she had a little headset mike etc that she was totally geared up to simply agitate a politician, and she stuck to that aim even when it was clear that she was making herself look a fool. Which is just really sad, that  she just wanted to stick it on her youtube channel or Facebook page or something and get a few likes. And for what?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, McRamFan said:

Wrong.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/campaign-spending-and-donations-at-referendums/campaign-spending-at-the-eu-referendum

Remain spent more.  Please at least know the facts.

Wrong. The leaflet expenditure was not attributed to the Remain campaign, hence why they are not being investigated, please research the facts before calling people wrong.

So you are voting for something you know sfa about.  As for the fishing waters, they will get sold off to the highest bidder, similar to what Greenland did when they left.  We won't get a better deal, that is basic economics.  If a company in a country is selling,  the customer that can buy the most will get the better deal.

So you have to be an expert on every matter to have an opinion on it. I've looked everywhere on the Internet and cannot find where the Remain campaign have said we would sell off our fishing waters, can you please confirm if this is fact or your opinion. Also please advise what capacity you make the claim in.

I did not say that, but hey feel free to make poo up.  Somethings never change.

You said democracy is about being able to change your mind once ALL of the facts are known. As it is impossible to disclose all facts regarding Brexit due to the constraints the EU have placed on us, how can ALL of the facts be known prior to Brexit?

 

[McRamFan]

So Farage and why we should leave the EU...

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Take back our fishing waters

Good example of how Farage is all talk and no substance - he could have done something but chose to do nothing and then told people to get angry about it

[McRamFan]

38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Wrong. The leaflet expenditure was not attributed to the Remain campaign, hence why they are not being investigated, please research the facts before calling people wrong.

The leaflet came out before the official start.  Leave broke the rules, Remain spent more money, and didn't brake the rules.  Go read the website.

As for selling stuff off, where have you been for the last 4 decades? Tories would sell out their own grandmothers.

[Wolfie]

5 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

So the government are will to risk potentially 20,000 peoples jobs for the sake of £75 million? How much will it cost for these people to be placed on benefits, finding new work. This would also make Scunthorpe even more of a ghost town, affecting more local businesses because folks won't be able to spend. There's so much of a chain reaction in a negative way and the government fail to realise this. All for £75 million. How much did the City of London receive when the banks went bust? Why not take ownership of British Steel to secure work and then have a proper legacy for the future? I thought the Tories were big on promoting British industry or aren't they bothering because it's not inside the M25.   

£100 odd million a few weeks ago, £75m today. How much next week?, next month?

Saw it on the news last night that China has made more steel just in the last 2 years than has ever been made in Britain. We just can't compete with those economies of scale - nor should we try to.

Let BS die and spend the money instead on re-generation, R&D support for small companies to come up with new technologies and try and create real long term sustainable jobs that won't need 10s of millions of bail outs every few weeks.

[Norman]

7 hours ago, StivePesley said:

Max's point is that we should allow free speech and open debate - because then "good ideas will gain traction and bad ideas will be taken apart".

Which is a fair point because that's how we defeated the Nazis and no Jews were killed - oh no hang on.

Joking aside, it would be good if people spent a bit more time educating themselves on how and why the Nazis came to power in Germany (and for a bit of balance also pick your own communist totalitarian regime's origin story..)

Someone said that Eddie and I had an "agenda" - which when I'd stopped laughing, I thought about for a minute. Maybe I do have a sub-conscious agenda but it's just to see a harmonious peaceful society without prejudice where no minority group is forced to continually argue for their rights

I refuse to be made to feel bad about that. What kind of person would want anything else??

You can't read.

Your agenda is fine with me. What isn't, is your desperation to be correct about everything. Which leads you down a slippery slope of poor posts. In my opinion.

Making out this country is racist to further your agenda. Pathetic.

[ronnieronalde]

5 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

£100 odd million a few weeks ago, £75m today. How much next week?, next month?

Saw it on the news last night that China has made more steel just in the last 2 years than has ever been made in Britain. We just can't compete with those economies of scale - nor should we try to.

Let BS die and spend the money instead on re-generation, R&D support for small companies to come up with new technologies and try and create real long term sustainable jobs that won't need 10s of millions of bail outs every few weeks.

I agree with that bailout after bailout isn't sensible but I look at the level of the average employee there and then compare how much we paid to bailout fewer people on higher salaries in the banking sector.

Do you fancy our chances of persuading those new R&D centres to set up in Sunny Scunny and it's neighbours. Blimey that'll be a tough sell.

I'd be very keen, (so keen that I'm going to try to google it) to see how much new investment has been poured into Scunthorpe over the last couple of decades. I bet it's not huge.

It's not just about keeping a company alive, it's about keeping a community alive.

You only need to look at Sunderland and Teeside to see what can happen when we let an entire industry die. It took Nissan moving to Sunderland to kick start any kind of life and now even that is at risk.

[Stive Pesley]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

You can't read.

Your agenda is fine with me. What isn't, is your desperation to be correct about everything. Which leads you down a slippery slope of poor posts. In my opinion.

Making out this country is racist to further your agenda. Pathetic.

Sorry - I can't read. Your post is just a jumble of letters to me Norman. Can you draw me a picture? ?