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The Politics Thread 2019


David

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1 hour ago, ronnieronalde said:

I agree with that bailout after bailout isn't sensible but I look at the level of the average employee there and then compare how much we paid to bailout fewer people on higher salaries in the banking sector.

Do you fancy our chances of persuading those new R&D centres to set up in Sunny Scunny and it's neighbours. Blimey that'll be a tough sell.

I'd be very keen, (so keen that I'm going to try to google it) to see how much new investment has been poured into Scunthorpe over the last couple of decades. I bet it's not huge.

It's not just about keeping a company alive, it's about keeping a community alive.

You only need to look at Sunderland and Teeside to see what can happen when we let an entire industry die. It took Nissan moving to Sunderland to kick start any kind of life and now even that is at risk.

I agree with most of that but with the bank bail outs, we were bailing out the whole financial system rather than highly paid individuals. 

The consequences of not doing so would have been too horrible to think about. For us all. 

The only way the uk can have any kind of sustainable manufacturing industry is to concentrate on new & high tech solutions and stay ahead of the rest of the world. Once mass production takes over it becomes very hard to compete with low cost economies and we then need to move on to the next thing. 

Or we all go & work in charity shops and nail bars, of course?

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The Nazi party came to power in Germany due to the huge financial cost levelled on it's population following WW1 in repatriations .  They borrowed a large amount of money from America which, during the depression they called in .  As such the country went bust and Hitler's policy of self sufficiency made him very popular, very quickly .  He was Time magazines man of the year in 1938.  A bit like Nick Clegg once he got in power he was quick to dispose of many his original supporters .Keep seeing the word's racism and Nazi on here and as it's unlikely we are going to paying £1 for a loaf of bread in the morning and £50 the day after it is rather unlikely we will be going down this route any time soon .

 

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16 minutes ago, cstand said:

We are the least racist country in the EU only Malta scored lower out of 28 countries. This was a survey done by the EU.

 

When was that survey done cstand pal? Can you link me to it. Such an interesting and emotive subject this.

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6 minutes ago, cstand said:

It's was done leading up to 2016 I think just before the vote not got a link I not a full time political activist. Finland came out top surprisingly. If I get chance to post the link I will. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6746615/Britain-one-racist-countries-Europe-says-new-study.html

I'm not one for posting Daily Mail links - but as cstand made the claim that we are the "second least racist country in Europe" I thought I'd look that up. If the study he remembers is from 2016 then this study was only from Feb 2019 and shows we've slipped down the rankings somewhat

  1. Switzerland
  2. Sweden
  3. Spain
  4. France
  5. Denmark
  6. Norway
  7. Netherlands
  8. Ireland
  9. United Kingdom

Which goes to proves that we are becoming more intolerant as a nation I guess. What can have changed since 2016 I wonder?

Quote

 around 15 per cent of Britons would object to having immigrants as neighbours

This is the Daily Mail remember - this is not a leftie rag with a leftie agenda

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40 minutes ago, cstand said:

You forget to point out the racism to Jewish people by the mad momentum mob who support their IRA loving leader. 

And I also didn't mention Islamophobia from the right.  Stop assuming I am a labour supporter.

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20 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

When was that survey done cstand pal? Can you link me to it. Such an interesting and emotive subject this.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8515003/britain-is-one-of-the-least-racist-countries-in-europe-new-study-finds/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6746615/Britain-one-racist-countries-Europe-says-new-study.html

https://metro.co.uk/2017/05/03/this-map-shows-the-most-racist-countries-in-europe-and-how-britain-ranks-6612608/

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012/full

Seems we're not such a bad place to live after all, pretty tolerant in fact.  Fancy that.  Anyone my age (mid 40s) has seen the situation improve massively during their lifetime - its not perfect, there is still work to do but there has been steady improvement over time.

I stand by my assertion that political correctness and identity politics is doing more harm than good.  Highlighting and focussing on division rather than celebrating what we have in common and fuelling any blip in the trend;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/01/how-americas-identity-politics-went-from-inclusion-to-division

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7 hours ago, McRamFan said:

Is this the first major casualty of Brexit, some thing so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-48365241

British Steel enters insolvency -

British Steel's troubles have been linked to a slump in orders from European customers ‎due to uncertainty over the Brexit process.

The firm has also been struggling with the weakness of the pound since the EU referendum in June 2016 and the escalating US-China trade war.

Admittedly BS has always struggled, mainly due to the fact that it was always under cut by cheap and less quality Chinese steel.

I could use some help understanding this, to be honest. To my understanding, British Steel got EU cash to counterbalance the cost of an EU tax on emissions, all approved via the government. 

The Brexit decision led to the EU removing the cash. 

Why are we still paying an EU tax if the cash rebate is being withdrawn? After Brexit, perhaps a hard brexit only, I'm not sure, do we still have to pay the tax or does that stop being a responsibility we need to consider? 

I'm not talking about the responsible approach to controlling emissions - I'm just surprised that an EU tax is the root cause and nobody is challenging it. 

I must be missing something, and I'm sure someone will put me straight. 

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28 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6746615/Britain-one-racist-countries-Europe-says-new-study.html

I'm not one for posting Daily Mail links - but as cstand made the claim that we are the "second least racist country in Europe" I thought I'd look that up. If the study he remembers is from 2016 then this study was only from Feb 2019 and shows we've slipped down the rankings somewhat

  1. Switzerland
  2. Sweden
  3. Spain
  4. France
  5. Denmark
  6. Norway
  7. Netherlands
  8. Ireland
  9. United Kingdom

Which goes to proves that we are becoming more intolerant as a nation I guess. What can have changed since 2016 I wonder?

This is the Daily Mail remember - this is not a leftie rag with a leftie agenda

That is not from the EU 

 

28 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6746615/Britain-one-racist-countries-Europe-says-new-study.html

I'm not one for posting Daily Mail links - but as cstand made the claim that we are the "second least racist country in Europe" I thought I'd look that up. If the study he remembers is from 2016 then this study was only from Feb 2019 and shows we've slipped down the rankings somewhat

  1. Switzerland
  2. Sweden
  3. Spain
  4. France
  5. Denmark
  6. Norway
  7. Netherlands
  8. Ireland
  9. United Kingdom

Which goes to proves that we are becoming more intolerant as a nation I guess. What can have changed since 2016 I wonder?

This is the Daily Mail remember - this is not a leftie rag with a leftie agenda

What agency report? 

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8 minutes ago, maxjam said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8515003/britain-is-one-of-the-least-racist-countries-in-europe-new-study-finds/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6746615/Britain-one-racist-countries-Europe-says-new-study.html

https://metro.co.uk/2017/05/03/this-map-shows-the-most-racist-countries-in-europe-and-how-britain-ranks-6612608/

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2019.00012/full

Seems we're not such a bad place to live after all, pretty tolerant in fact.  Fancy that.  Anyone my age (mid 40s) has seen the situation improve massively during their lifetime - its not perfect, there is still work to do but there has been steady improvement over time.

I stand by my assertion that political correctness and identity politics is doing more harm than good.  Highlighting and focussing on division rather than celebrating what we have in common and fuelling any blip in the trend;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/01/how-americas-identity-politics-went-from-inclusion-to-division

450,000 people across 100 countries. If they've done it equally that's 4500 UK citizens they've asked. I'd be keen to see the profile of those who responded.

Also the question, would you object to having a neighbour of a different religion. If that was the only question it's a bit of a leap from there to suggest anything.

An Irish Roman Catholic? Different religion.

I can't speak for everyone but I've never said we are a racist country. I've said instances of racism are becoming more and more common, but I also think reverse racism is on the increase.

This is only my opinion and it isn't researched or backed up with concrete statistics but if anyone seriously thinks racism isn't getting worse, I'm struggling to see how they can come to that conclusion.

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5 hours ago, 86 points said:

This shouldn't have made me laugh but it properly did.

The problem with Brexit is that nobody has decided what flavour they want collectively. It really is a mixed bag - an analogy would be this...

All Brexiteers love liquorice, whereas all Remainers hate it. Ask each individual Brexiteer if they like Liquorice Allsorts, and they all say that they do. Only some of them like the ones with the coconut wheels around the outside, some of them like the ones with pink bobbles and others like the straight liquorice pipes. So the government announce, following the referendum, that "Liquorice means liquorice" and are prepared to give bags to everyone - only the ones who like coconut wheels hate the ones with pink bobbles and call the government's Department of Liquorice traitors, the ones who like pink bobbles are allergic to coconut and think that an insurance-funded NHS along the American style is the only approach that will allow them to enjoy liquorice allsorts without dying, and the ones who just want liquorice pipes can't stand anything but liquorice and can't stand people who don't like liquorice in the first place.

 

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5 minutes ago, eddie said:

The problem with Brexit is that nobody has decided what flavour they want collectively. It really is a mixed bag - an analogy would be this...

All Brexiteers love liquorice, whereas all Remainers hate it. Ask each individual Brexiteer if they like Liquorice Allsorts, and they all say that they do. Only some of them like the ones with the coconut wheels around the outside, some of them like the ones with pink bobbles and others like the straight liquorice pipes. So the government announce, following the referendum, that "Liquorice means liquorice" and are prepared to give bags to everyone - only the ones who like coconut wheels hate the ones with pink bobbles and call the government's Department of Liquorice traitors, the ones who like pink bobbles are allergic to coconut and think that an insurance-funded NHS along the American style is the only approach that will allow them to enjoy liquorice allsorts without dying, and the ones who just want liquorice pipes can't stand anything but liquorice and can't stand people who don't like liquorice in the first place.

 

Have  you been drinking too many Belgian beers?  

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12 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

450,000 people across 100 countries. If they've done it equally that's 4500 UK citizens they've asked. I'd be keen to see the profile of those who responded.

Well thats a problem with all studies ? Personally all I can go on are my own experiences, 40 years worth and things are generally getting better imo.  I can recall watching tv in the 80s, going to football matches in the 80s and seeing things get better as time progresses.

 

12 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I can't speak for everyone but I've never said we are a racist country. I've said instances of racism are becoming more and more common, but I also think reverse racism is on the increase.

I don't think we are a racist country, but thats not to say racism doesn't exist - it clearly does, but there are more factors at play than just Brexit.  Identity politics, heightening sensitivity, media agenda etc

The following article, 'Trump has made America less racist' draws parallels with Brexit, and lets face it, thats not an article I ever thought I'd see!

https://spectator.us/racist-incidents-down-trump/

study referenced

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3378076

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