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The Politics Thread 2019

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Yup cos the first thing I'd do if my boy had pneumonia would be to take a pic of him laying on the floor and get in touch with the media.  Maybe thats because I'm a bit of a capitalist though, the cash would come in handy for a private room. 

I think the first thing they probably did ask for him to get treatment but let's not let that prevent you from making utterly crass comments that merely serve to show up how you really think, eh!

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maxjam

maxjam

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I think the first thing they probably did ask for him to get treatment but let's not let that prevent you from making utterly crass comments that merely serve to show up how you really think, eh!

What do you want me to say?  Without being there I highly doubt he was left without any medical supervision what-so-ever, regardless the fact they may have had a free bed or not.  

My next door neighbour is an old fella, been suffering with cancer for several years, I speak to him regularly over the fence and he can't praise his treatment highly enough (Nottingham) does that mean the Tories have done an excellent job with the NHS?  Nope, its still underfunded and overwhelmed and has been for successive governments.

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Whataboutery Paul? Not normally your style good sir!

I think I've made my opinions on this abundantly clear on this very thread on multiple occasions in the last week or so. I would venture that toddlers sleeping on hospital floors does however suggest that the HNS has been massively underfunded unless someone can explain why that's not a fair assumption to draw?

Im not debating that that.  It's tragic that there are issues that need resolving, and despite those who claim all would be perfect if Labour were in power,  my point was simply that corbyn claimed it was 450 pages of proof the nhs was being sold off to the us, yet every expert report i have read states the nhs is mentioned 4 times or so, but there is zero evidence to say that any deal was or will ever be agreed up on.

It's very clear that corbyns claims are at the best exaggerated.

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Comrade 86

Comrade 86

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Im not debating that that.  It's tragic that there are issues that need resolving, and despite those who claim all would be perfect if Labour were in power,  my point was simply that corbyn claimed it was 450 pages of proof the nhs was being sold off to the us, yet every expert report i have read states the nhs is mentioned 4 times or so, but there is zero evidence to say that any deal was or will ever be agreed up on.

It's very clear that corbyns claims are at the best exaggerated.

I actually agree with you Paul but I don't think anyone has suggested everything will be perfect under Corbyn. It's a leap of faith even for me. The point, which has nothing to do with my original question btw, is that the NHS has been starved of funding and I along with many others give little creedence to  Tory assertions that this will change under Johnson. There are also some disturbing elements to the report, not least of which (and this is what I've highlighted several times now), the in principle agreement to artificially extend pharma patents.

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maxjam

maxjam

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

If the terms of Brexit mean that we know longer have  reciprocal state health care in other European countries (via EHIC) - would you consider that a price worth paying? Say for example you had a fall and broke your leg in Spain, as you lay there contemplating a huge medical bill would you be OK with it safe in the knowledge that no foreign nationals in the UK were getting free health care at our expense?

Until Brexit actually happens and we sort out the easy deals we've been promised who knows what's going to happen.  IMO however I think reciprocal deals are beneficial and will happen.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47213212

 

57 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

And secondly - do you think an Australian-type points system controlling immigration will actually lower net immigration?

Don't know enough about it tbh - might be nice to get Brexit done first so we can consider controlling immigration first.

*And yes I know most immigration is from non-EU countries and we have had the means to limit that for years, but given how we're all racists for wanting to limit white immigration it would have been political suicide to suggest limiting non-white immigration.

A quick google search returned this;

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/reports/the-australian-points-based-system-what-is-it-and-what-would-its-impact-be-in-the-uk/

without looking at alternative methods of controlling immigration, its a start.

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Sith Happens

Sith Happens

Posted
Posted

For me i am not sure the NHS will ever be perfect.  

For me, hey i am alive due to the fantastic service i received and have continued to do so, so im going to be a bit biased,  as are those who have received poor service, it's awful anyone should have to.

I have made my opinions clear before that its not just a government issue but a cultural one.  If a and e wasnt full on a weekend evening with drink related incidents or beds taken by people who eat, drink,  smoke too much then maybe poor kids like the one in the article wouldn't be sleeping on the floor.

I know my idealistic view won't ever be achieved but i still cannot be convinced that when east mids ambulance had to replace all their fleet with vehicles capable of carrying 50 stone plus people that we will ever have a solution.

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Ghost of Clough

Ghost of Clough

Posted
Posted

Question to all NHS experts...
From a total budget of £865b, £162b is to be spent on Health Care in 2020 (just under 20% of the total budget). If we were to increase the amount spent on the NHS, what are you going to spend less on? Bare in mind, we want a budget surplus (currently £18b) to reduce our debt.

Health Care - £162b
Pensions - £161b
Welfare - £126b
Public Services - £118b
Education - £92b
Debt Interest - £52b
Defence - £50b
Transport - £35b
State Protection - £33b
General Government - £17b
 

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maxjam

maxjam

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

I want you to stop taking cheap shots st the parents and show even a modicum of humanity. I would have thought my earlier posts would have made that abundantly clear had you bothered to read them properly!

I made one flippant comment in my opening post about successive governments underfunding the NHS.  I then made a second to rebuff your 'disgraceful' allegations.

Furthermore you don't get to decide what I post, if you don't like my comments don't engage or block me. I regularly ignore yours.  

Feel free to have the final word, you seem to need it. 

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Norman

Norman

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Not sure what the link is. I wanted to know what data you had for delays in Brexit being bad for the NHS. 
it was your chance to offer more to this thread than sound bites and gifs. 

It costs this country 750 million per month of delay. 

I would rather that went towards the NHS. 

I'm sounding very Faragey today.

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Gritstone Ram

Gritstone Ram

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Question to all NHS experts...
From a total budget of £865b, £162b is to be spent on Health Care in 2020 (just under 20% of the total budget). If we were to increase the amount spent on the NHS, what are you going to spend less on? Bare in mind, we want a budget surplus (currently £18b) to reduce our debt.

Health Care - £162b
Pensions - £161b
Welfare - £126b
Public Services - £118b
Education - £92b
Debt Interest - £52b
Defence - £50b
Transport - £35b
State Protection - £33b
General Government - £17b
 

Hold on if Labour got in you’ve forgot £15.5b to the EU.

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Wolfie

Wolfie

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Question to all NHS experts...
From a total budget of £865b, £162b is to be spent on Health Care in 2020 (just under 20% of the total budget). If we were to increase the amount spent on the NHS, what are you going to spend less on? Bare in mind, we want a budget surplus (currently £18b) to reduce our debt.

Health Care - £162b
Pensions - £161b
Welfare - £126b
Public Services - £118b
Education - £92b
Debt Interest - £52b
Defence - £50b
Transport - £35b
State Protection - £33b
General Government - £17b
 

And it's the bit in bold that scares me. £50bn a year interest with interest rates at historical lows, not least due to the UK's excellent credit rating.

A few years of massive and risky borrowing and if it doesn't pay off with sustainable levels of high growth (not that that has ever happened), those interest charges would soon rocket.

Are Labour hoping they can inflate it away?. Along with all of our savings?

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