AdamRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Are you sure the ERG didn't vote against May's deal? Pretty sure they did. My memory ain't that bad. The report was for the last 3 months, wasn’t it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Its a real pity that little boy is being used to shame the Tories over the NHS. You really have to question the parents that put him there, took a photo then sent it to the media ☹️ Regardless, lets all agree that the NHS has been increasingly undefunded and overwhelmed whoever has been in government; https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209034/The-babies-born-hospital-corridors-Bed-shortage-forces-4-000-mothers-birth-lifts-offices-hospital-toilets.html https://fullfact.org/health/number-hospital-beds-falling/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound 2 tease Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its a real pity that little boy is being used to shame the Tories over the NHS. Who else has been responsible for the NHS during the past 10 years ?, should we all just look the other way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bound 2 tease said: Who else has been responsible for the NHS during the past 10 years ?, should we all just look the other way ? Did you read any of the links? Same poo, different government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Do you have an opinion on Johnson refusing to look at the photo and then grabbing the it and putting in his pocket though, or are we debating syntax now? He handled it badly for sure. It was probably best just to say this is shocking but I ha e not had a chance to look into the details yet. Everything seems to be an ambush now so I can see why they ALL try and not say anything. The only trouble is that, this approach always goes wonky. Corbyn and the Queens message. Blown up out of all proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its a real pity that little boy is being used to shame the Tories over the NHS. You really have to question the parents that put him there, took a photo then sent it to the media ☹️ Regardless, lets all agree that the NHS has been increasingly undefunded and overwhelmed whoever has been in government; https://www.theguardian.com/society/2006/feb/16/health.politics https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209034/The-babies-born-hospital-corridors-Bed-shortage-forces-4-000-mothers-birth-lifts-offices-hospital-toilets.html https://fullfact.org/health/number-hospital-beds-falling/ You're right, the true tragedy is how people are using it to make the government look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its a real pity that little boy is being used to shame the Tories over the NHS. You really have to question the parents that put him there, took a photo then sent it to the media Really? How is highlighting the fact that their toddler who has pneumonia could not be provided a hospital bed is wrong in what way? Absolutely disgusting that you choose to demonise IMO, though not entirely surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, AdamRam said: The report was for the last 3 months, wasn’t it ? But the ERG blocked it yonks before that. If you want to point fingers, why is it solely Labour's fault that they opposed the government? That's their job. Why is it not the fault of Boris for blocking it in the first place? Why is it not the fault of May for putting incompatible red lines in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: He handled it badly for sure. It was probably best just to say this is shocking but I ha e not had a chance to look into the details yet. Everything seems to be an ambush now so I can see why they ALL try and not say anything. The only trouble is that, this approach always goes wonky. Corbyn and the Queens message. Blown up out of all proportion. Fair comment. Appreciate you actually answering the question too. Seems we have a growing number of folks on here who'd rather play the exact game you hihglight. Depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramesses Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, maxjam said: Its a real pity that little boy is being used to shame the Tories over the NHS. You really have to question the parents that put him there, took a photo then sent it to the media ☹️......... Yes, what a capital wheeze Dominic. Let’s blame the parents of that 4 year old child being treated for pneumonia on the floor of hospital… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Who's going to teach financial management in a country where, in order to get (say) a mortgage, you need to have a credit rating and in order to get a credit rating you need to have incurred debt? Not quite. If you have a credit card, pay it off monthly then you get a financial record. As with a bank account. Then add in payslips and you will get a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 hours ago, jono said: This could become a long conversation. ! But in this sound bite world I suppose I could start with the shadow chancellor and probably next leader saying “of course I am a Marxist.” Pure Communism from my perspective is a flawed Utopian ideal where it suggests we get to ..From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. ( where that goes wrong is that it ignores some particularly large parts of our human nature as history has shown ) Basically a noble objective. But I agree with you, it's flawed and I find it hard to believe it could actually world with real people in the real world. Self interest is such a strong motivation for people, even for those who also feel a responsibility towards a collective good. To have a system that doesn't cater for that isn't going to prosper in my opinion. Green leaning social democracies with firmly regulated markets and financial sectors, and an emphasis on progressive tax systems is the way to go for me. It's always problematic to hear the phrase 'pure communism' or 'pure any ideology' without a clarification of what that person thinks that phrase actually means. Do people mean Marxism? which envisioned the eventual complete melting away of state structures, until a stateless collective remains. Or do people mean Stalinism? the epitome of complete top down dominance and state control over everything? Or do they mean something in between these two. Some people think Stalinism was the inevitable corollary of Marxism, other people think it was a complete betrayal of Marxism. Such a wide spectrum of opinion exists even among the most knowledge people on the subject. I would say the shadow chancellor, even though I know next to nothing about him, would probably be in the latter school of thought. A Marxist but not a Stalinist. Hopefully that's the case ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofmidnight Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Did you read any of the links? Same poo, different government. Totally agree. From 1999 ( labour in government ) we experienced some dreadful shortcomings in the NHS and also some good practice. My mother who was about 77 at the time needed frequent visits to the hospital and quite honestly some of the things I witnessed fell well short of acceptable care. In recent years we have many negative things about the NHS but I have to admit I was very impressed with the care my son received when he went for an endoscopy and he got his results the same day. So yes during every government's tenure there has been good, bad, ok care. What governments shouldn't do is rebuild/ reform the whole system. Keeping good practice and improving poor is what is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, jono said: Not quite. If you have a credit card, pay it off monthly then you get a financial record. As with a bank account. Then add in payslips and you will get a score. Using a credit card is incurring debt. I repeat the question: Who is going to teach financial management? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bound 2 tease Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, AdamRam said: The report was for the last 3 months, wasn’t it ? Johnsons deal wasn't voted down , he refused to allow it to be scrutinised. 3 minutes ago, maxjam said: Did you read any of the links? Same poo, different government. Did you read my timeframe ? or did you,like Boris, look the other way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just a point I want to leave the EU and what’s wrong with upholding the Referendum vote ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, GboroRam said: But the ERG blocked it yonks before that. If you want to point fingers, why is it solely Labour's fault that they opposed the government? That's their job. Why is it not the fault of Boris for blocking it in the first place? Why is it not the fault of May for putting incompatible red lines in place? I wasn’t pointing fingers at anyone in particular, for me all parties have to be attributed blame for the whole fiasco. My point was more around the growth report being attributed to austerity was not correct / proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, GboroRam said: You're right, the true tragedy is how people are using it to make the government look bad. 9 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said: Really? How is highlighting the fact that their toddler who has pneumonia could not be provided a hospital bed is wrong in what way? Absolutely disgusting that you choose to demonise IMO, though not entirely surprising. Just pointing out that its just the latest in a long line of examples of NHS failings under successive governments. Both the Tories and Labour have promised to pump billions more into the NHS this time, only one wants to limit the amount of new people coming into the country that will want to use it - but thats a conversation we had I dunno, probably 100 pages ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, Curtains said: The cost of Corbyn https://www.costofcorbyn.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2vmAtZmr5gIVQoXVCh1w9AFbEAAYASAAEgI0APD_BwE The cost of Conservatism (for all of you that read and believed the bot posts saying it was staged) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bound 2 tease said: Did you read my timeframe ? or did you,like Boris, look the other way ? Yup, see my previous reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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