The Politics Thread 2019

[jono]

2 hours ago, Highgate said:

The only 5 that have any chance are Biden (gaff prone - running on a 'I know Obama' platform), Sanders (commie*), Warren (commie*), Buttigieg (No experience, disliked by African-American voters it seems), Bloomberg (really disliked by African-Americans and other minorities due to his stop and frisk policy while he was mayor of New York).

Take your pick.  There would all make better Presidents than Trump in my view.

* According to certain sections of the US media. 

 

It is symptomatic of the dire politics we have at the moment across the world. Full of ideologues instead of organisers and doers. 
 

wouldn't you love to live in Zambia where gays get locked up. Iran where they shut the internet down when the populace disagree with them. China who send folk to be re educated in their millions, Putin who sends his murderers to Britain and Germany, does an Anschluss with the Crimea. And Trump an egotistical bully bereft of culture who appeals to .. other egotistical bullies. And that’s before we have gone to the king of bluster and generality Boris and his student union leader moaning rival JC

 

[jono]

59 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

It's funny how the debate seems to descend into a semantic exploration of what is actually meant by "privatisation"

Ultimately the most likely scenario is that we have a more formal two tier system

1. Free NHS - long waiting lists, limited care, limited services

2. Paid tier. the NHS equivalent of priority boarding. More or less the same treatments just no waiting and enhanced service options

 

Can anyone honestly tell me they think this is never going to happen ?

 

 

Oh ! So the free NHS exists then .. it’s just a question of the will to put funds in to waiting lists, care and services and an argument as to how much the paying people pay. I don’t really see what has changed (in this assumption) 

Quite how this is a privatised NHS I am not sure. In any case , that is what we have now. NHS doctors and surgeons doing private work is common practice and has been since I was born. Where is the scandal ? 

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

Politicians meet other politicians. It's called diplomacy.

The electorate of Islington North have been very grateful since 1983 for Jeremy’s great many overseas diplomatic missions. No terrorist organisation has even let off a stink bomb in that area in the last 40 years. Coincidence?

[G STAR RAM]

20 minutes ago, jono said:

Quite how this is a privatised NHS I am not sure. In any case , that is what we have now. NHS doctors and surgeons doing private work is common practice and has been since I was born. Where is the scandal ? 

You've not played this game before have you?

What you do is make a story up to attack Boris Johnson with, and then when he points out its rubbish you just say he is lying and then come up with a list of other things he has lied about which are completely irrelevant.

Dont forget to try and get Trump into the story too because then you can add weight to the story by pointing out he is liar too.

Also you get bonus points if you can try and get racism into the story.

Good luck!

[Sith Happens]

Still amazes me the number of Labour supporters still going on about Thatcher, but become proper mard arses when Blairs government is mentioned.

 

[jono]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

You've not played this game before have you?

What you do is make a story up to attack Boris Johnson with, and then when he points out its rubbish you just say he is lying and then come up with a list of other things he has lied about which are completely irrelevant.

Dont forget to try and get Trump into the story too because then you can add weight to the story by pointing out he is liar too.

Also you get bonus points if you can try and get racism into the story.

Good luck!

I am bemused by the NHS thing. We all want free health care with good service, reasonable waiting lists relative to need. and every party knows that. 
 

I can’t help feeling there are those who don’t actually want that... They want something else that has nothing to do with health and justice. 
 

They want every single nut and bolt, floor mop and syringe to be supplied and designed by a state employee. Other wise it is a betrayal of the British people and a sense of fairness and justice. A flawed premise.

that isn’t getting a job done. That isn’t providing a need, or a bit of civilisation,  that is pure and simple trumpeting an ideology .. and it’s bankrupt. See Soviet Russia and 1960’s NHS specs 

( now I await the....  “ah ha you are the voice of big business ready to rape the public and the tax payer and leave children starving on your altar of profit” )

I have one word for that attitude and bizarre conclusion drawing but I am too polite to write it down.

[TimRam]

8 minutes ago, Paul71 said:

Still amazes me the number of Labour supporters still going on about Thatcher, but become proper mard arses when Blairs government is mentioned.

 

Even Corbyn has mentioned "Thatcherism" recently.

[Highgate]

Just now, jono said:

It is symptomatic of the dire politics we have at the moment across the world. Full of ideologues instead of organisers and doers. 
wouldn't you love to live in Zambia where gays get locked up. Iran where they shut the internet down when the populace disagree with them. China who send folk to be re educated in their millions, Putin who sends his murderers to Britain and Germany, does an Anschluss with the Crimea. And Trump an egotistical bully bereft of culture who appeals to .. other egotistical bullies. And that’s before we have gone to the king of bluster and generality Boris and his student union leader moaning rival JC

All you have to do is look at the leaders all across the globe....and count how many you think are actually suitable to be in such a position of power.  Not too many I would say.  Even in the democracies the situation is pretty bleak.  Adding to your list, there are Bolsonaro, Duterte, Erdogan and Modi all democratically elected and all dreadful, in my opinion.  Why is this the case, is being an awful human being an advantage in politics?  And of course in non-democratic countries the situation is even worse. 

To be honest, some of the Democratic candidates for 2020 seem fine to me.  If I had a vote, I'd vote for Bernie Sanders. 

[Sith Happens]

So the NHS has been running 71 years? 

Of that labour have apparently only been custodians for 14 years, and suddenly its all going to fall apart despite them not being in charge for 40 years.

 

[Gritstone Ram]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

Still amazes me the number of Labour supporters still going on about Thatcher, but become proper mard arses when Blairs government is mentioned.

 

The conclusion I have drawn is that socialist are hypocrites. They can’t see it though.

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Thank god you pointed out who was on the left and right..  Phew.

Oh I don't think any of them were on the left were they? ?

[Angry Ram]

13 minutes ago, Van der MoodHoover said:

Oh I don't think any of them were on the left were they? ?

You’re right.   Or left. Or... I dunno. 

[Highgate]

Just now, Van Gritters said:

The conclusion I have drawn is that socialist are hypocrites. They can’t see it though.

Glad that's finally sorted.  Pretty conclusive really. 

[Van der MoodHoover]

3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

You’re right.   Or left. Or... I dunno. 

Right and righter.......or maybe righteous? ?

[i-Ram]

15 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

You’re right.   Or left. Or... I dunno. 

He’s left, earning £280k p.a., so hated by the left.

[Angry Ram]

7 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

He’s left, earning £280k p.a., so hated by the left.

Chump change. I’ve just sold some NHS shares to some American geezer. Quids in..

[G STAR RAM]

35 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Chump change. I’ve just sold some NHS shares to some American geezer. Quids in..

Thought Rees Moggs hedge fund owned all the shares in the NHS?

I heard he sold them all and siphoned the money off to the Cayman Islands.

That's why he's not been seen for a few weeks, hes still counting his profits.

[Angry Ram]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thought Rees Moggs hedge fund owned all the shares in the NHS?

I heard he sold them all and siphoned the money off to the Cayman Islands.

That's why he's not been seen for a few weeks, hes still counting his profits.

poo my secret is out. I confess I am the Moggmeister. 

[jono]

1 hour ago, Highgate said:

All you have to do is look at the leaders all across the globe....and count how many you think are actually suitable to be in such a position of power.  Not too many I would say.  Even in the democracies the situation is pretty bleak.  Adding to your list, there are Bolsonaro, Duterte, Erdogan and Modi all democratically elected and all dreadful, in my opinion.  Why is this the case, is being an awful human being an advantage in politics?  And of course in non-democratic countries the situation is even worse. 

To be honest, some of the Democratic candidates for 2020 seem fine to me.  If I had a vote, I'd vote for Bernie Sanders. 

I really struggle with US politics. Most Americans I’ve met have always seemed reasonable, open, positive and friendly but there is something in their genetic make that makes their politics byzantine. Beneath the Disney gloss its a strange place with extremes good and bad everywhere. 
 

interesting you mentioning Erdogan. He represents for me all that is wrong. How can a nation that fathered and cherished the vision of Attaturk end up with a weak bully which is how he comes across to me. 

[Highgate]

Just now, jono said:

I really struggle with US politics. Most Americans I’ve met have always seemed reasonable, open, positive and friendly but there is something in their genetic make that makes their politics byzantine. Beneath the Disney gloss its a strange place with extremes good and bad everywhere. 
interesting you mentioning Erdogan. He represents for me all that is wrong. How can a nation that fathered and cherished the vision of Attaturk end up with a weak bully which is how he comes across to me. 

I think by playing to the religious conservative vote, of which there are still a lot in Turkey.  Ataturk is still revered in Turkey so it's strange that Erdogan's voters don't realise that he is the antithesis of everything Ataturk believed in, at least regarding secularism and the separation of church and state.