GboroRam Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 22 minutes ago, Van Gritters said: Are these the workers rights the EU promised to protect? Is Boris promising to improve workers rights when we leave? All spurious. We have the right to give workers protections whether we're in or out of the EU. Not part of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 5 hours ago, TimRam said: Corbyn - Tbe only man who can respond to a question about Nato by mentioning climate change in his reply (as he did on the bbc news last night). Daft old sod. Could be worse could sound like this guy, and change I was very, very drunk to get brexit done. Every interview with Boris I have seen has gone the same way, mumble, mumble, avoid the question, get brexit done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, reverendo de duivel said: 1 hour ago, rynny said: Every interview with Boris I have seen has gone the same way, mumble, mumble, avoid the question, get brexit done. Too right - I say hats off to Cassetteboy for managing to pull so many coherent words out of his speeches. The "Stammer Time" section was spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 4 hours ago, WhiteHorseRam said: To be honest, the Momentum Corbynista brigade are desperate for the emotional/physical clash if undeniable proof emerged that Bojo was about to sell the NHS off. They want the million person march and the flares going off, V for Vendetta masks etc. They love that stuff. Likewise, Tory MPs on the ERG fringe would love some German minister to insult the Queen … they would be hurtling around in their DPM Y-Fronts before you knew it, forming Yeomanry cavalry units and dusting off 12-bores. Lock them all up in the toilet I say. My favourite post of recent times. ? nose studs and spikes hair and outrage versus chisel jawed closet One nation fascists. Can we put them in the same public convenience ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, jono said: Can we put them in the same public convenience ? A moron-neutral toilet? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 3 hours ago, GboroRam said: Is Boris promising to improve workers rights when we leave? All spurious. We have the right to give workers protections whether we're in or out of the EU. Not part of the issue. They are promising a fairer immigration system. If immigration comes down, private companies are forced to improve their offer to employees and potential employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Uptherams said: private companies are forced to improve their offer to employees and potential employees. I thought that if you increased the costs of private corporations that they would all move abroad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 34 minutes ago, Uptherams said: They are promising a fairer immigration system. If immigration comes down, private companies are forced to improve their offer to employees and potential employees. Is there a crisis influx of immigrants in our supermarkets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: I thought that if you increased the costs of private corporations that they would all move abroad? The biggest market by far is domestic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, GboroRam said: Is there a crisis influx of immigrants in our supermarkets? People move between industries and sectors. If there is a drop in supply of the human resource, private organisations have to improve their offer to people. This really isn't hard to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Uptherams said: People move between industries and sectors. If there is a drop in supply of the human resource, private organisations have to improve their offer to people. This really isn't hard to follow. No it's fine I follow it 1) Make businesses pay a bit more tax and it's "oh they will relocate abroad" and "why are we punishing them for being successful?" 2) Make businesses pay their staff more by limiting immigration to drop the supply of employees and that's acceptable Can't think what it is about 2) that appeals so much when 1) is so abhorrent...hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said: No it's fine I follow it 1) Make businesses pay a bit more tax and it's "oh they will relocate abroad" and "why are we punishing them for being successful?" 2) Make businesses pay their staff more by limiting immigration to drop the supply of employees and that's acceptable Can't think what it is about 2) that appeals so much when 1) is so abhorrent...hmmmm People would rather have higher wages than a vastly bigger state and population. More freedom and choice in society. Making decisions for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Uptherams said: People move between industries and sectors. If there is a drop in supply of the human resource, private organisations have to improve their offer to people. This really isn't hard to follow. Not really. Immigrants generally are in skilled jobs such as the health service, or menial jobs such as factory and agricultural jobs. There is not a high number of immigrants in retail shop jobs across the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Van Gritters said: I have seen it too. Believe me I am not a fan. The contractors are only interested in profit profit profit. Where I work they call it a partnership which is ok for all the easy jobs but once the poo hits the fan the contractors step back and all of a sudden the partnership is nonexistent and they are only the contractor and we’re left holding the baby. I feel they want the money but not the hard work that goes with it and because it’s not their company they have no desire to go the extra mile. Even with the offer of a bonus or retaining money to ensure the work is done, cherry picking is all I see corners cut and even refusal to complete work unless more money is paid. To enforce this work then requires more people to enforce defects go to alternative suppliers I could go on. It’s an interesting one. I have no knowledge of how things work in IT or the health service. But after a lifetime in the engineering / manufacturing industry it was always the Principal Maker that held the cards for large contracts. If you are JLR or JCB then you effectively own your subcontractors. They can only go so far on price but with terms of conditions of supply, you comply or you don’t get business and if it goes wrong you pick up the tab. You can’t refuse because if you do they have more lawyers and you’d get no more business from what is your biggest customer. Similarly in the clothing industry a while back, M and S dictated heavily to suppliers and whilst it is undoubtably just business and the suppliers weren’t stupid, there was always a master and servant relationship between the business giver and the business taker. Yet successful businesses time an again opt for subcontractors so that they aren’t lumped with an unquantifiable risk and management for secondary operations. There are always companies ready to give it a go for the level of business involved. They become super efficient organisations or they fail. It is uncomfortable for me because I have this huge fair play monkey on my shoulder. I hate it when one side has a huge power advantage, but in the end if you look at what came out of a Leyland Factory in the 1970’s .. with its own foundry, machine shop, design dept ... and compare it to what gets made now at a lower price and higher quality then you have to admit it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Uptherams said: People would rather have higher wages than a vastly bigger state and population. More freedom and choice in society. Making decisions for themselves. The question is will productivity increase inline with the increased wages? If not then any increase in costs will surely put the prices up for then end users and potentially negate any increase in wages? It can't be as simple as wages going up and thats it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: Not really. Immigrants generally are in skilled jobs such as the health service, or menial jobs such as factory and agricultural jobs. There is not a high number of immigrants in retail shop jobs across the country. If Burger King started paying £15 an hour tomorrow, they would find an influx of applicants right across the board. You are missing the point about supply and demand entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uptherams Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Paul71 said: The question is will productivity increase inline with the increased wages? If not then any increase in costs will surely put the prices up for then end users and potentially negate any increase in wages? It can't be as simple as wages going up and thats it? Market conditions rather than policy (increasing minimum wages, etc), have traditionally lead to greater increases in productivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: Not really. Immigrants generally are in skilled jobs such as the health service, or menial jobs such as factory and agricultural jobs. There is not a high number of immigrants in retail shop jobs across the country. Really, I was in Zara with Mrs Jono the other day and at least 3 floor staff were none natural English speakers and Aldi on Burton Road .. staff looked about 50/50. Pierre victoire always has a large coterie of bright cheery young Eastern Europeans. What is your definition of immigrant ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted December 5, 2019 Share Posted December 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Van Gritters said: Are these the workers rights the EU promised to protect? The EU set's minimum standards for workers rights, there are also areas where EU law does not offer protection and the minimum levels of employment law in that country apply. The area's of worker protection that are not fully covered by EU law that have been rolled back by UK gov in recent years are: - Reducing the protection given by unfair dismissal law - Working Time Directive opt out - Increase in judicial fees for employment tribunal's. There is nothing stopping a country offering increased rights should they wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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