The Politics Thread 2019

[AdamRam]

10 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I don’t contribute more to fund them because I’m a student earning duck all at the minute.

But if I was earning an alright salary, let alone 80k, I wouldn’t mind funding a food bank, no. 

Ah I didn’t realise that, who finds you going to matches and the such ? Have you not got a PT job ? 

No surprise then that you think there is a problem and your answer is for someone else to fund it.

[AdamRam]

8 hours ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

Someone who earns £100k pays £27.5k in tax. NICs account almost a further £6k. A net income of over £66,500 then. Where are you getting this £40k figure from?

Some data from the Trussell Trust for your perusal...

• Between 1 April 2018 and 31 March 2019, the Trussell Trust’s food bank network distributed 1.6 million three-day emergency food supplies to people in crisis, a 19% increase on the previous year.
• More than half a million of these went to children
• Over 33% of those referred to the Trussell Trust are working

Since the government has made it clear that they care not a jot for those who are struggling to feed or house themselves, the burden is quite obviously going to be passed on to those who earn the most, except of course, under a Tory government who rather than aid the poor, seek to reduce the meagre benefits paid to them. 

This year I will pay over 40k I can assure you.

im  not saying there isn’t a problem on food banks, just don’t see why anyone over 85k has to be the only ones to finance fixing it.

 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

7 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Ah I didn’t realise that, who finds you going to matches and the such ? Have you not got a PT job ? 

No surprise then that you think there is a problem and your answer is for someone else to fund it.

I live extremely cheaply so that I can afford to go to games. I’m very fortunate that my parents pay my rent whilst I’m at university. The government gives me a maintenance loan of £4,500 per year, and I receive a £500 private bursary that I earned through achieving good grades at school. So, I essentially live on £5,000 for ten months of the year, which includes close to 20 away games. I know how to live frugally.

I fully intend to earn good money after I graduate, and I fully intend to pay my fair share of taxes and help those who need it. Just like a rich person can have socialist values, a person with little money can support taxing the rich.

I’m not going to abandon my morals as soon as I earn a bit of money.

[AdamRam]

10 hours ago, 1of4 said:

 How much as the last nine years of austerity affected the rich? So yes they should be asked to contribute more. But everyone else as we come down the rich list, also needs to contribute an appropriate amount.

Until those at the bottom of our society are no longer in a vulnerable position, then those that can afford to pay more should do so.

Those earring over 85% do may more, a lot more. I get it though, identify a problem, moan about it and expect someone else to pay for it. 

[Angry Ram]

14 hours ago, Van Wolfie said:

Copied from elsewhere. WTF!

Labour has announced a plan to plant 2 billion trees over the next 20 years. The BBC describes this as “ambitious”. Guido has been doing some sums.

This would mean more than 270,000 trees being planted every day for 20 years.
Assuming a 7-hour working day that is over 600 trees a minute.
That would require 20,000 people planting trees.
If each tree requires a planting density of say 10 square metres per tree, that is 10,000 trees per square kilometre, so 27 square kilometres-a-day, that is foresting an area the size of Exeter every day for 20 years.
After 20 years some 9.5% of the UK land surface would have to been forested.
The surface area of Britain is 209,331,000,00m², given 13% of Britain is already forest, that means Labour’s tree planting would result in nearly 23% of Britain being forest. Roughly 70% of Britain is currently agricultural land and the remaining 7% of the country is urbanised for human habitation.

Yeah but it will be those Japanese Bonsai trees, so it will just about fill my back garden and take me a weekend to plant the buggers..

[AdamRam]

3 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I live extremely cheaply so that I can afford to go to games. I’m very fortunate that my parents pay my rent whilst I’m at university. The government gives me a maintenance loan of £4,500 per year, and I receive a £500 private bursary that I earned through achieving good grades at school. So, I essentially live on £5,000 for ten months of the year, which includes close to 20 away games. I know how to live frugally.

I fully intend to earn good money after I graduate, and I fully intend to pay my fair share of taxes and help those who need it. Just like a rich person can have socialist values, a person with little money can support taxing the rich.

I’m not going to abandon my morals as soon as I earn a bit of money.

Wish my parents had been wealthy enough to pay my rent or the government had provided me with the tools to goto university. Alas I had to go out and earn a living, £30 a week, I couldn’t afford to do anything in them days and never once expected anyone to pay the way for me.

Throughout my life I have faced redundancy where I lost everything as the company went bust, finance issues and years of hard working to increase my salary. Finally I’m able to earn a good wage, and am able to address years of debt and finally able to enjoy the finer things in life for my family and me due to years of hard work.

It won’t last, I’m in a cut throat industry where my job is as risk every year, the pressure of delivering results is intense.

My reward for this, this year I will have paid 40k tax, and now have people telling me that I don’t pay enough and I should pay more. Why, because I am assumed to be rich, I’m in a 5% minority and its therefore my 40k a year isn’t good enough, you want more. 
 

Let’s reward success by penalising it, no wonder why so many are on benefits nowadays, it’s easier.

Oh and if you really felt that strongly about food banks, why not sacrifice your away games, contribute that money...no thought not.

[Wolfie]

9 hours ago, Pastinaak said:

Again, your just referring to the information that you've read in that thing you've copied and pasted. 

So I'm not allowed to post information I find elsewhere?. You are new to this thread, aren't you?!

[Wolfie]

9 hours ago, Pastinaak said:

Again, your just referring to the information that you've read in that thing you've copied and pasted. 

OK, I'll be serious for a minute....

It's not the idea of planting trees that I have a problem with but the completely unrealistic promises that come with it.

The IFS yesterday attacked all parties but had a go at Labour for making promsies that there is no way they will be able to deliver on, for practical reasons - even if they manage to find the cash.

250,000 trees a day very quickly becomes 300-400,000 if it takes a few months/years to get stuff in place to properly start that kind of programme.

They can make fantasy promises like these & then ask us to trust them with the economy & security of the country?. No thanks.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

28 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Would depend on their political views would it not.. I am sure the Tories could get a similar number who could pull it apart.

Take your pick: the Tories could certainly drum up a whole army of economists paid for by the Institute of Economic Affairs, the
Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, the Legatum Institute, the Initiative for Free Trade, the Atlas Network, the Taxpayer's Alliance, the Margret Thatcher Center for Freedom, the Adam Smith Institute, the Cato Institute or the Mercatus Center, just to name a few.

They are mainly funded by fossil fuel magnates, hedge fund and finance billionaires, and tobacco and oil companies.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

13 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Wish my parents had been wealthy enough to pay my rent or the government had provided me with the tools to goto university. Alas I had to go out and earn a living, £30 a week, I couldn’t afford to do anything in them days and never once expected anyone to pay the way for me.

Throughout my life I have faced redundancy where I lost everything as the company went bust, finance issues and years of hard working to increase my salary. Finally I’m able to earn a good wage, and am able to address years of debt and finally able to enjoy the finer things in life for my family and me due to years of hard work.

It won’t last, I’m in a cut throat industry where my job is as risk every year, the pressure of delivering results is intense.

My reward for this, this year I will have paid 40k tax, and now have people telling me that I don’t pay enough and I should pay more. Why, because I am assumed to be rich, I’m in a 5% minority and its therefore my 40k a year isn’t good enough, you want more. 
 

Let’s reward success by penalising it, no wonder why so many are on benefits nowadays, it’s easier.

Oh and if you really felt that strongly about food banks, why not sacrifice your away games, contribute that money...no thought not.

I've already said that I'm extremely fortunate that my parents pay my rent while I'm at university. All that matters is that they know I'm grateful for it and, quite frankly, it's none of your business. But, if they couldn't afford to pay it, or chose not to, then if I really wanted to go to university I suppose I'd work full time to save up for it. I'm certainly not anyone to 'pay the way for me' like you suggest.

Well done, you've worked hard. Do you want a pat on the back? I've also had various jobs since I was 13, with my last one being in a factory. It's not as if I've sat on my arse all my life. I intend to work hard after I graduate too, but I'm not going to moan about paying 45% tax on anything above £80,000 if I manage to reach that salary. The new tax rate certainly isn't going to put me off working hard to achieve my dreams and persuade me to live on benefits. 

If you can't tell the difference between someone receiving £5,000 per year not funding foodbanks and someone earning over 80k a year moaning about paying a bit more tax, then I really can't win. 

And, funnily enough, I've helped raise around £300 for Movember this month; I regularly give money to homeless people and am planning on making a charitable donation this Christmas. But carry on assuming that I'm a hypocrite who blows all my money on football and alcohol and relies on mummy and daddy to bail me out.

I hope I can revisit this thread in a few years and say that I'm earning good money and happily paying my taxes. 

[1of4]

28 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Those earring over 85% do may more, a lot more. I get it though, identify a problem, moan about it and expect someone else to pay for it. 

I want all the nation to contribute to paying for what is needed to run a fair society and those that are able to contribute more than those that are less well off should do so. Isn't that how a democratic society works?

[AdamRam]

1 minute ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I've already said that I'm extremely fortunate that my parents pay my rent while I'm at university. All that matters is that they know I'm grateful for it and, quite frankly, it's none of your business. But, if they couldn't afford to pay it, or chose not to, then if I really wanted to go to university I suppose I'd work full time to save up for it. I'm certainly not anyone to 'pay the way for me' like you suggest.

Well done, you've worked hard. Do you want a pat on the back? I intend to work hard too, but I'm not going to moan about paying 45% tax on anything above £80,000 if I manage to reach that salary. The new tax rate certainly isn't going to put me off working hard to achieve my dreams and persuade me to live on benefits. 

If you can't tell the difference between someone receiving £5,000 per year not funding foodbanks and someone earning over 80k a year moaning about paying a bit more tax, then I really can't win. 

And, funnily enough, I've helped raise around £300 for Movember this month; I regularly give money to homeless people and am planning on making a charitable donation this Christmas. But carry on assuming that I'm a hypocrite who blows all his money on football and alcohol and relies on mummy and daddy to bail me out.

I hope I can revisit this thread in a few years and say that I'm earning good money and happily paying my taxes. 

Great you grew a moustache and got others to pay for it, well done, I presume anyone earning over 80k doesn’t do that ?
 

I’m not sitting here saying you should pay more taxes, what I’m saying is that it is easy to identify a problem and get someone else to pay for it, you get given 5000 spare cash and I think you should be able to do with it what you wish. Same as I think if you are going to solve the country’s problems it shouldnt be just be the minority that have to pay for it, who already contribute more than anyone else.

The hypocrisy is that you are quite happy to have a go and say that anyone eating over 80k a year should contribute to food banks and sit on your high horse whilst you continue to go out drinking and attending away matches.

[Anon]

3 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

The hypocrisy is that you are quite happy to have a go and say that anyone eating over 80k a year should contribute to food banks and sit on your high horse whilst you continue to go out drinking and attending away matches.

I think Kenny Burns should definitely face an increased tax burden.

[WhiteHorseRam]

16 hours ago, Uptherams said:

Reports are this would cover a land area twice the size of Wales. People who aren't supportive of this Labour leadership need to cut their losses, either vote for another party, or not at all and then Labour can begin to re-establish itself.

That goes for the Tories too.

But for Labour ….. he should go if he loses this GE, but I have a feeling he won't - or there will be an odd leadership hand-over where another Momentum looney-tunes replaces him.

[AdamRam]

6 minutes ago, 1of4 said:

I want all the nation to contribute to paying for what is needed to run a fair society and those that are able to contribute more than those that are less well off should do so. Isn't that how a democratic society works?

And that’s what’s happening at the moment, the answer though cannot be to continually penalise the minority, how is that a democratic society ?

[DarkFruitsRam7]

1 minute ago, AdamRam said:

Great you grew a moustache and got others to pay for it, well done, I presume anyone earning over 80k doesn’t do that ?
 

I’m not sitting here saying you should pay more taxes, what I’m saying is that it is easy to identify a problem and get someone else to pay for it, you get given 5000 spare cash and I think you should be able to do with it what you wish. Same as I think if you are going to solve the country’s problems it shouldnt be just be the minority that have to pay for it, who already contribute more than anyone else.

The hypocrisy is that you are quite happy to have a go and say that anyone eating over 80k a year should contribute to food banks and sit on your high horse whilst you continue to go out drinking and attending away matches.

Of course I want wealthier people to pay to resolve the country's problems. I'm going to keep that stance even if I end up as a millionaire. That's my moral stance, and it won't change. If I'm earning 100k, I'm not going to say those on 30k alone should pay more taxes.

I'm not saying that 'anyone earning over 80k a year should contribute to food banks'. I'm saying that they should pay their taxes! Just like I expect those earning 20k a year to pay theirs. Not once have I suggested that people have an obligation to be philanthropists; rather that they shouldn't be moaning about paying a bit more tax to help the poor. What I spend my money on is irrelevant because I don't earn enough to pay tax. But clearly the government values what I'm doing, otherwise they wouldn't lend me the money to attend university. 

[AdamRam]

1 minute ago, Anon said:

I think Kenny Burns should definitely face an increased tax burden.

I should never have dipped my toe into this thread, I knew it was a mistake from the outset.

No one is going to change their views or give an inch on their political views.

[AdamRam]

2 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Of course I want wealthier people to pay to resolve the country's problems. I'm going to keep that stance even if I end up as a millionaire. That's my moral stance, and it won't change. If I'm earning 100k, I'm not going to say those on 30k alone should pay more taxes.

I'm not saying that 'anyone earning over 80k a year should contribute to food banks'. I'm saying that they should pay their taxes! Just like I expect those earning 20k a year to pay theirs. Not once have I suggested that people have an obligation to be philanthropists; rather that they shouldn't be moaning about paying a bit more tax to help the poor. What I spend my money on is irrelevant because I don't earn enough to pay tax. But clearly the government values what I'm doing, otherwise they wouldn't lend me the money to attend university. 

Once again you seem to be missing the point or maybe haven’t noticed, people eating over 80k a year already do pay more taxes, a lot more. Why though should you continue to increase this percentage and not anyone else’s, why is this fair and why do you expect this ?

[Sith Happens]

8 minutes ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'm saying that they should pay their taxes! 

They do dont they?

[G STAR RAM]

@DarkFruitsRam7

Out of interest, how many hours a week is your university course?