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Chris Martin - Player Discussion Thread.

'Rambe33

By 'Rambe33
in Derby County Forum

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SouthernRam

SouthernRam

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Agreed he's best ball to feet but he's better in the air than Waghorn

Okay - Not sure if you guys are people who hate statistics and don't think they mean anything but these are from Whoscored which uses OPTA stats (the source all football clubs also use) and they say:

Average Aerial Challenges per game:

Martin - 5.7 total - 2.2 won - 3.5 lost

Waghorn - 2 total - 0.6 won - 1.3 lost

So Martin wins more aerial battles than Waghorn is even involved in

For reference Aleksander Mitrovic (who I consider good in the air and 'Aerial Duals' in considered one of his strengths on whoscored) has the below:

Mitrovic - 6.1 total - 2.7 won - 3.4 lost

And these statistics are taken from last season? Waghorn started 39 times compared to Martin starting just 9 games all season for two clubs. Not the fairest of comparisons.

None the less, I'm not suggesting Waghorn is the ideal No 9, just that Martin isn't. 

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cheron85

cheron85

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, EraniosSocks said:

Such a deluded thread this is 

Thanks Yoda ?

2 minutes ago, SouthernRam said:

And these statistics are taken from last season? Waghorn started 39 times compared to Martin starting just 9 games all season for two clubs. Not the fairest of comparisons.

Career statistics - Waghorn did a little better last season:

2.7 total - 0.9 won - 1.8 lost

Martin did a little worse (ish):

Derby - 3.3 total - 1.7 won - 1.7 lost

Reading - 5.6 total - 2.3 won - 3.3 lost

But I'd argue that Martin was almost entirely being used as a hit-and-hope Target Man last season so a LOT of aerial challenges in very few minutes

7 minutes ago, SouthernRam said:

None the less, I'm not suggesting Waghorn is the ideal No 9, just that Martin isn't. 

He's been on the receiving end of some pretty poor treatment by a series of managers now and hasn't been consistent - But that is the case for quite a number of our players

No player is ideal - Especially at Championship level - But I made a point that he had aerial ability in his locker (more so than Waghonr) and you said it was "utter rubbish" - I think the stats say otherwise

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DCFC27

DCFC27

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SouthernRam said:

This is just utter rubbish, I'm afraid. Too many fans fondly reminiscing and forgetting everything in between.

Nine times out of ten Martin would hit the ground like a bag of spuds when challenging, including in the air. He had two seasons where he looked a useful forward but hasn't been remotely productive since.

He's had chances to prove himself under Pearson, Clement, Rowett, Stam and Jokanovic and has barely touched the starting line ups.

If you can’t see how clever he was at wining those fouls was for us you can’t have been watching. 

Martin in the system we played was pivotal. When we under pressure all we had to do was hit the area of space that Martin would occupy. He would then either set it of to Bryson/Hughes or Hendricks and we were out of danger. If there was nothing on then he would hold it up draw the foul and then we could regroup. That’s very clever forward play.  

Im not convinced he’s what he was but you can not deny that Martin was amongst the best strikers in the championship when he was our number 9.

He did well for clement at Derby. He didn’t get chances under Pearson. Rowett made the mistake of letting him go and when winall got injured and we suffered. Under jokanovic he played well so much so we couldn’t pay to get him back from Fulham. 

I don’t think anyone in that reading team set the world a light last year either. Yeah 

 

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Ambitious

Ambitious

Posted
Posted

Martin, like Thorne, just isn't the same player anymore - or at least hasn't shown it in the a long time. You can defend them for a while, sure, because we've seen these guys be real top class Championship footballers in their time here but time stands still for no man and we've seen ample of players improve & go backwards in the last 12/24 months. 

It would be great to see them back to their best, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. I don't think anyone should. It's up to them to prove themselves at the end of the day. 

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cheron85

cheron85

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, DcfcJB said:

If you can’t see how clever he was at wining those fouls was for us you can’t have been watching. 

Like last year when he came on for Scotland and won them a couple of fairly crucial free-kicks?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40141512

17 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Martin, like Thorne, just isn't the same player anymore - or at least hasn't shown it in the a long time. You can defend them for a while, sure, because we've seen these guys be real top class Championship footballers in their time here but time stands still for no man and we've seen ample of players improve & go backwards in the last 12/24 months. 

It would be great to see them back to their best, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. I don't think anyone should. It's up to them to prove themselves at the end of the day. 

I just don't think we know that - Last season it was fairly clear that Thorne wasn't fit - I worry more about his mentality than anything else though - He used to be a 'blood and thunder' player like Barker was - And if he's a little more afraid of a challenge now he might never be the same again

Martin we've barely seen for more than 15 mins at a time in the last 2 years - When he's been played it's as a last gasp 'big lad' to hoof the ball at - Or when chasing games and gambling with a second striker - Lack of consistent playing time will affect any player

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Sparkle

Sparkle

Posted
Posted

Even the non martin appreciation society should recognise that he is at his best in a 433 system with good players around him and as we look at the options currently he could well be the best option again but he isn’t the only option unlike in Mac one - but I do think we should keep him and use him but I am not sure our current management have seen him at his best 

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Stedcfc

Stedcfc

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Sparkle said:

Even the non martin appreciation society should recognise that he is at his best in a 433 system with good players around him and as we look at the options currently he could well be the best option again but he isn’t the only option unlike in Mac one - but I do think we should keep him and use him but I am not sure our current management have seen him at his best 

I think lampards 4-3-3 is quite different to Macs in terms of what the front 3 are expected to do. Mainly that we’re playing a pressing game and Martin just isn’t effective at doing that. Only reason Martin would be useful is as a plan B if we move away from the pressing game and want to play in a similar way to Mac. I’d imagine martins wages are too high for us to want to keep him as a plan B.

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RoyMac5

RoyMac5

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Stedcfc said:

I think lampards 4-3-3 is quite different to Macs in terms of what the front 3 are expected to do. Mainly that we’re playing a pressing game...

Why can't Martin do this? I saw evidence of him doing it last night for the U23s, in fact he was at times left to close down on his own, which is pointless. So he encouraged his team-mates out. You don't need to be a greyhound to close down, just one of a team all doing it.

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