Chris Martin - Player Discussion Thread.

[Sparkle]

4 hours ago, Stedcfc said:

I think lampards 4-3-3 is quite different to Macs in terms of what the front 3 are expected to do. Mainly that we’re playing a pressing game and Martin just isn’t effective at doing that. Only reason Martin would be useful is as a plan B if we move away from the pressing game and want to play in a similar way to Mac. I’d imagine martins wages are too high for us to want to keep him as a plan B.

Maybe, but that supposed pressing game hasn’t been seen by me yet up front 

[TuffLuff]

how the heck does one player alone not ‘press’ enough? You press intelligently as a team, that’s not down to one player running about a bit more than others. It’s about positioning and intelligence and about doing it in unison. Pressures doesn’t mean you run around aimlessly!

I despair at the anti-Martin lot, yes his time at Derby may be over soon, but the lack of sensible input/objectivity/factual information makes the debate laughable.

 

[eddie]

7 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

how the heck does one player alone not ‘press’ enough? You press intelligently as a team, that’s not down to one player running about a bit more than others. It’s about positioning and intelligence and about doing it in unison. Pressures doesn’t mean you run around aimlessly!

I despair at the anti-Martin lot, yes his time at Derby may be over soon, but the lack of sensible input/objectivity/factual information makes the debate laughable.

 

Anti-Martin explained in one simple gif....

[BathRam72]

8 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

how the heck does one player alone not ‘press’ enough? You press intelligently as a team, that’s not down to one player running about a bit more than others. It’s about positioning and intelligence and about doing it in unison. Pressures doesn’t mean you run around aimlessly!

I despair at the anti-Martin lot, yes his time at Derby may be over soon, but the lack of sensible input/objectivity/factual information makes the debate laughable.

 

I think the lack of factual information comes from the very fact that there isn't any due to his illness, lack of play time and the fact he has spent 2 seasons on loan with no great effect.

Before you say it, I am a Chris Martin fan but I really think his time here is done. Maybe time to move on

[TuffLuff]

4 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

I think the lack of factual information comes from the very fact that there isn't any due to his illness, lack of play time and the fact he has spent 2 seasons on loan with no great effect.

Before you say it, I am a Chris Martin fan but I really think his time here is done. Maybe time to move on

Don’t worry I won’t accuse! Can fully accept it maybe is the time to move on, as much as I am personally against it, it’s just the reasoning some give on here is ludacris. Yes, there’s a reasoned opinion you can have about him going and for the sake of his career I can see why. But the “he doesn’t press, lazy, falls down, I heard he doesnt work on faults or whatever else I can shake at him” brigade is the most poorly argued, and lacking of any basis  i think I’ve come across on here*. It all boils down to personal interests, but on a forum you need a little more than that.

 

*except the Keogh threads...maybe

 

[BaaLocks]

35 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Maybe time to move on

Strikers, more than anyone, rely on momentum. Name me any player, ever, anywhere, that spent two years out of the first team and then came back to rip it up. I can't think of one.

[Woodley Ram]

6 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Strikers, more than anyone, rely on momentum. Name me any player, ever, anywhere, that spent two years out of the first team and then came back to rip it up. I can't think of one.

Nick Blackman oops sorry ?

[toddy]

17 hours ago, Ambitious said:

Martin, like Thorne, just isn't the same player anymore - or at least hasn't shown it in the a long time. You can defend them for a while, sure, because we've seen these guys be real top class Championship footballers in their time here but time stands still for no man and we've seen ample of players improve & go backwards in the last 12/24 months. 

It would be great to see them back to their best, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. I don't think anyone should. It's up to them to prove themselves at the end of the day. 

Can't argue with this one.

Neither can the stats.

[VulcanRam]

What is this illness? I've seen reference to colitis, but only on here and nowhere else. People may have heard this and heard that but as we all know that can often come with a healthy chunk of mistruth or disingenuousness.

Has anyone ever said, officially and on the record, that CM is ill? 

Genuine question, to which there is a yes or no answer.

[BathRam72]

7 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Strikers, more than anyone, rely on momentum. Name me any player, ever, anywhere, that spent two years out of the first team and then came back to rip it up. I can't think of one.

I do know that, but he wasn't doing it for us in the last half of the season prior to his loans either. Unfortunately he is now having medical problems, he is not getting any younger and he doesn't appear to fit in the current set up. No manager is just going to throw him in on the hope that 10 will improve him. I just think a fresh start would suit him. 

If however he gets a run in the under 23's and finds his form and then fights his way into the first squad and proves himself. Then great. I just don't see that happening any time soon

[Ghost of Clough]

8 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

how the heck does one player alone not ‘press’ enough? You press intelligently as a team, that’s not down to one player running about a bit more than others. It’s about positioning and intelligence and about doing it in unison. Pressures doesn’t mean you run around aimlessly!

I despair at the anti-Martin lot, yes his time at Derby may be over soon, but the lack of sensible input/objectivity/factual information makes the debate laughable.

 

I think you mean ‘The Anti Chris-t’

[Sparkle]

Martin was performing fine until about the January under Clement when we brought Blackman in and it coincided with the football not being passed forward at all then the next season we brought in Pearson who clearly upset everything and everyone and wanted runners up front in Vydra with Anya and promptly sent Martin on loan to Fulham where he did well until the whole new contract Mac two thing the following season we had Rowettball where Martin when used contributed positively but again Rowett needed scamperers up front and Martin went on loan in the January to Reading where he hardly played which was very strange at the time and a potential illness may have been apparent and this season it’s appears the potential illness may still be apparent fitness wise which seems to be improving but the main thing is that we have a very good footballer under contract who can play in many ways and especially well in a form of a 433 system and is only one year older than waghorn who we paid anywhere between £4-8 million for

[StringerBell]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Martin was performing fine until about the January under Clement when we brought Blackman in and it coincided with the football not being passed forward at all then the next season we brought in Pearson who clearly upset everything and everyone and wanted runners up front in Vydra with Anya and promptly sent Martin on loan to Fulham where he did well until the whole new contract Mac two thing the following season we had Rowettball where Martin when used contributed positively but again Rowett needed scamperers up front and Martin went on loan in the January to Reading where he hardly played which was very strange at the time and a potential illness may have been apparent and this season it’s appears the potential illness may still be apparent fitness wise which seems to be improving but the main thing is that we have a very good footballer under contract who can play in many ways and especially well in a form of a 433 system and is only one year older than waghorn who we paid anywhere between £4-8 million for

Even at the end you didn't use a full stop.

[Sparkle]

22 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

I do know that, but he wasn't doing it for us in the last half of the season prior to his loans either. Unfortunately he is now having medical problems, he is not getting any younger and he doesn't appear to fit in the current set up. No manager is just going to throw him in on the hope that 10 will improve him. I just think a fresh start would suit him. 

If however he gets a run in the under 23's and finds his form and then fights his way into the first squad and proves himself. Then great. I just don't see that happening any time soon

I just thought that it’s worth mentioning that Martin started five league games last season for us - 3 away - Sunderland = 1-1 draw Barnsley = 3-0 win - leeds 2-1 win - home Burton won 1-0 home vs wolves lost 2-0 - and quite a few sub appearances where he came on and held the ball up and eased us to wins in a comfortable fashion 

so to suggest he wasn’t doing it for us isn’t really fair in my opinion 

[Hathersage Ram]

8 hours ago, BaaLocks said:

Strikers, more than anyone, rely on momentum. Name me any player, ever, anywhere, that spent two years out of the first team and then came back to rip it up. I can't think of one.

If they have spent two years out of the first team, it's because the managers at the time thought they were not good enough. You don't send your best strikers away on loan or rot in the reserves if they are good enough.

[Comrade 86]

21 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Martin was performing fine until about the January under Clement when we brought Blackman in and it coincided with the football not being passed forward at all then the next season we brought in Pearson who clearly upset everything and everyone and wanted runners up front in Vydra with Anya and promptly sent Martin on loan to Fulham where he did well until the whole new contract Mac two thing the following season we had Rowettball where Martin when used contributed positively but again Rowett needed scamperers up front and Martin went on loan in the January to Reading where he hardly played which was very strange at the time and a potential illness may have been apparent and this season it’s appears the potential illness may still be apparent fitness wise which seems to be improving but the main thing is that we have a very good footballer under contract who can play in many ways and especially well in a form of a 433 system and is only one year older than waghorn who we paid anywhere between £4-8 million for

AGreed although I nearly passed out reading this ?

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

If they have spent two years out of the first team, it's because the managers at the time thought they were not good enough. You don't send your best strikers away on loan or rot in the reserves if they are good enough.

Unless you as a manager aren't good enough, of course. I think many clued up fans might accept that Jokanovic might have more about him than Pearson and Rowett. Chris's last proper stint was under the aforementioned and despite all the malarkey, he still netted 11 times from 24 starts which is hardly shabby. Once again, you've also neatly overlooked that Martin does not fit the system of the two former Derby managers - he needs to be played in a 4-3-3 to be seen at his best as every Derby fan knows. Obviously you're entitled to an opinion but don't make up shizzle simply to justify your narrative. You don't rate him, fair enough, but let's stick to the facts shall we!

[Ted McMinn Football Genius]

40 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Martin was performing fine until about the January under Clement when we brought Blackman in and it coincided with the football not being passed forward at all then the next season we brought in Pearson who clearly upset everything and everyone and wanted runners up front in Vydra with Anya and promptly sent Martin on loan to Fulham where he did well until the whole new contract Mac two thing the following season we had Rowettball where Martin when used contributed positively but again Rowett needed scamperers up front and Martin went on loan in the January to Reading where he hardly played which was very strange at the time and a potential illness may have been apparent and this season it’s appears the potential illness may still be apparent fitness wise which seems to be improving but the main thing is that we have a very good footballer under contract who can play in many ways and especially well in a form of a 433 system and is only one year older than waghorn who we paid anywhere between £4-8 million for

Bloody hell @Sparkle surprised you haven’t had the grammar police ?‍♀️ on you for that post.

I almost ran out of air trying to read that in one breath. ?????

I do agree with what your saying though ??

[Sparkle]

19 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

If they have spent two years out of the first team, it's because the managers at the time thought they were not good enough. You don't send your best strikers away on loan or rot in the reserves if they are good enough.

Pearson and Rowett did 

[Sparkle]

1 minute ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Bloody hell @Sparkle surprised you haven’t had the grammar police ?‍♀️ on you for that post.

I almost ran out of air trying to read that in one breath. ?????

I do agree with what your saying though ??

Yep sorry for that ! I just get frustrated when one of our best signings in the last decade is unfairly commented on.