Chris Martin - Player Discussion Thread.

[Hathersage Ram]

14 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Unless you as a manager aren't good enough, of course. I think many clued up fans might accept that Jokanovic might have more about him than Pearson and Rowett. Chris's last proper stint was under the aforementioned and despite all the malarkey, he still netted 11 times from 24 starts which is hardly shabby. Once again, you've also neatly overlooked that Martin does not fit the system of the two former Derby managers - he needs to be played in a 4-3-3 to be seen at his best as every Derby fan knows. Obviously you're entitled to an opinion but don't make up shizzle simply to justify your narrative. You don't rate him, fair enough, but let's stick to the facts shall we!

It is a fact that those managers didn't rate him. The fact that you don't give Pearson any managerial credence actually amazes me. Have you not seen his managerial record?

[Hathersage Ram]

4 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Pearson and Rowett did 

I think they have been proved right

[Comrade 86]

6 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

It is a fact that those managers didn't rate him. The fact that you don't give Pearson any managerial credence actually amazes me. Have you not seen his managerial record?

So you'll judge Martin on his time at Reading (as you have in previous posts) but I'm not allowed to judge Pearson on his time at Derby. Jesus, I've heard it all now. What system did Pearson play and Rowett too? Do you even know? And how is it that Martin prospered under McClaren and Joko but not under Rowett and Pearson? The managers you think are so clued up saw no place for the likes of Ince, Hughes and latterly Martin but we're all meant to accept that they're tactical geniuses? Get a grip mate!

[Sparkle]

2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

It is a fact that those managers didn't rate him. The fact that you don't give Pearson any managerial credence actually amazes me. Have you not seen his managerial record?

You are right Pearson got Leicester up and kept them up one season and was functional at hull and Rowett kept Birmingham in the championship and achieved a sixth place finish in the championship for us falling from second position which we should have cruised and didn’t our form fall when we sent out Martin and Russell maybe a coincidence but hey ho 

on a side issue McClaren who did manage England and had won a cup at Middlesbrough and had a decent job at a very successful Manchester United rates him highly 

[Hathersage Ram]

3 minutes ago, 86 points said:

So you'll judge Martin on his time at Reading (as you have in previous posts) but I'm not allowed to judge Pearson on his time at Derby. Jesus, I've heard it all now. What system did Pearson play and Rowett too? Do you even know? And how is it that Martin prospered under McClaren and Joko but not under Rowett and Pearson?

You like to misquote all the time.

I don't think Martin has been a decent player for 3 seasons now, and I wouldn't say he prospered on Joko! I must have missed Fulham's attempts to sign him permanently? 

You are obsessed with systems, the fact is they didn't rate him. If they had, they may have kept him for a plan b formation.

You can judge who you like on any criteria you want. Football is a game of opinions, I just don't rate yours.

 

[toddy]

Quote

 

FFS

Where's my DeLorean? ?

He was once a good striker for us but that was now many seasons ago!

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

You like to misquote all the time.

I don't think Martin has been a decent player for 3 seasons now, and I wouldn't say he prospered on Joko! I must have missed Fulham's attempts to sign him permanently? 

You are obsessed with systems, the fact is they didn't rate him. If they had, they may have kept him for a plan b formation.

You can judge who you like on any criteria you want. Football is a game of opinions, I just don't rate yours.

 

Can't see many folk rating yours mate tbh. Your esteemed managerial god Nigel Pearson is now at OH Leuven in the Belgian 2nd division. That's how much esteem he's held in in this country. Equally, if you can't grasp that certain strikers need to be deployed in certain systems then you know nothing, I'm afraid. 

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

You are right Pearson got Leicester up and kept them up 

Then Ranieri took over and won the Premiership with them...

[Hathersage Ram]

9 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Can't see many folk rating yours mate tbh. Your esteemed managerial god Nigel Pearson is now at OH Leuven in the Belgian 2nd division. That's how much esteem he's held in in this country. Equally, if you can't grasp that certain strikers need to be deployed in certain systems then you know nothing, I'm afraid. 

There you go again making unsubstantiated comments "Managerial God Nigel Pearson" where have I even intimated that?

I think he deserves credit for past achievements as I do Mac.

Sad just sad that you feel the need to be appreciated on here.

[Comrade 86]

4 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

There you go again making unsubstantiated comments "Managerial God Nigel Pearson" where have I even intimated that?

I think he deserves credit for past achievements as I do Mac.

Sad just sad that you feel the need for Chris Martin to be appreciated on here.

Given your 100 odd attention seeking guff posts, mostly running down one of the better players we've had in the last decade, I'll take that as a compliment. FTFY

[Hathersage Ram]

3 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Given your 100 odd attention seeking guff posts, mostly running down one of the better players we've had in the last decade, I'll take that as a compliment. FTFY

Yes we agree he is one of the better players we have had, past tense we can agree.

[Bigfella]

[Comrade 86]

7 minutes ago, Bigfella said:

Fair one ?

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

Yes we agree he is one of the better players we have had, past tense we can agree.

Its all past tense until you do it again - he's not had chance ffs. Waghorn might not do it again, Marriot might never. We'll have to hope the manager can see what players have to offer based on their footballing ability, not that whether they're liked by some Derby fans.

[Hathersage Ram]

2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Its all past tense until you do it again - he's not had chance ffs. Waghorn might not do it again, Marriot might never. We'll have to hope the manager can see what players have to offer based on their footballing ability, not that whether they're liked by some Derby fans.

It's past tense for a long time now though.

How long do you want to live in the past?

Oh okay lets blame systems, managers, anything else ………………. or heaven forbid he is past his prime

[RoyMac5]

10 minutes ago, Hathersage Ram said:

It's past tense for a long time now though.

How long do you want to live in the past?

Oh okay lets blame systems, managers, anything else ………………. or heaven forbid he is past his prime

One year older than Waghorn, who supposedly relies on pace to be better than Martin at the 'hold up' role. Say it when he's had chance to play some games - he's our player, why the rush to get rid? If he's that bad no-one will want him!

[Hathersage Ram]

Just now, RoyMac5 said:

One year older than Waghorn, who supposedly relies on pace to be better than Martin at the 'hold up' role. Say it when he's had chance to play some games - he's our player, why the rush to get rid? If he's that bad no-one will want him!

He has had plenty of chances here and away.

And I can see the que from here of the clubs wanting to permanently sign him ………………………. not

[Parsnip]

1 hour ago, 86 points said:

Then Ranieri took over and won the Premiership with them...

In fairness, Pearson's Leicester won 7 of their last 9 games before he was replaced by Ranieri - so you could say the Pearson put the team together and got them into Premier League winning form, Ranieri simply carried it on.

[EnigmaRam]

Bloody hell you guys still going on! ?

[Ram8]

Tuffluff said (quoting the ‘Chris Martin is rubbish’ contingent)  :-     “He doesn’t press, lazy, falls down, I heard he doesnt work on faults or whatever else I can shake at him” brigade is the most poorly argued, and lacking of any basis  i think I’ve come across on here.”

There are three ways of looking at the Chris Martin situation :- 

a) .. There is the ‘Martin is rubbish’ brigade, who know nothing about football, and therefore cannot appreciate the qualities he possesses (goalscorer, hold up player, brings midfield into play with clever touches and distribution, winner of free kicks in dangerous areas). None of our other No. 9 options have more than 2 of these qualities in their locker ! 

b) .. Some can appreciate his past contribution, but believe that he no longer has the ability to produce the level of football required due to injury or spending too long in the ‘wilderness’ imposed upon him by Pearson and Rowett. 

c) .. Whereas I  believe (as do a few others) that if his fitness level can be restored, then he can be just as potent a force as he was 3 seasons ago, as intelligent footballers don’t lose that mental skill and perception that puts them ahead of the ‘journeyman’, the ‘water carrier’ that Rowett valued so much in his disastrous tenure as manager. 

Personally, if I were Chris Martin, I would approach the legal department at the F. A. with a case of ‘career destruction’ or whatever the equivalent legal jargon is for the disgraceful treatment and disrespect he received from Nigel Pearson and Gary Rowett, which effectively ruined his career and consigned him to unsuitable loan spells and ‘bit part’ cameos for the last 10 minutes of matches under Rowett. 

I have never, in over 60 years of watching football, observed a more disgusting treatment of a professional footballer by 2 (so called) top level managers, and I would love to see Pearson and Rowett held to account for their wilful persecution of a quality footballer, in the pursuit of their negative and naive vision of ‘anti - entertainment drudgery football’ !

So, what should happen now ? 

Someone at the club should make sure that Frank Lampard sees footage of CM at his best, and appreciates what he can still contribute to his chosen 4-3-3 formation. 

Will it happen? I doubt it, and if not, the chance of eradicating one of the darkest stains in the history of this great club will have been lost forever.

In which case all that remains is to wish CM all the best in what remains of his future career elsewhere, and to thank him for some of the best memories of watching Derby County under a manager (Steve McLaren) who appreciated his qualities and incorporated his skills into a team that produced some wonderful football.