Crazy Keogh hating

[cannable]

20 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Just re-watched the goals from the Leeds game

1) Lowe out of position, Ledley moved to cover, no DM cover - Ledley should have been exactly where the shot was taken from

2) Tomori woefully out of position/loses his man completely

3) Wilson (I think) stupidly loses the ball with a terrible pass - Tomori loses his man - Koegh gets beaten

4) Tomori misses the header, Lowe lost his man, Keogh lost his man

I think for the third you can possibly have a pop at Keogh but it would be a little unfair - Since the mistakes weren't his

The final goal is partly Koegh's faulty cos he did make an actual mistake there losing his man but I'd argue the bigger mistakes had already been made

I thought the fourth was Wisdom’s fault for letting Alioski having a free run into the box. 

[cheron85]

18 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I wouldn't say Lowe was "out of position". He lost the ball on the edge of their box through over dribbling it.

And "Keogh gets beaten" for the 3rd was where he tried to block the shot?

Can't remember the roles of Keogh or Lower for the 4th apart from the ball over the top which Tomori should have cleared

I'd say a LB without the ball when we're defending is out of position if he's even in their half ?

Yeh, when he tried to black and the guy just knocked it wider

2 minutes ago, cannable said:

I thought the fourth was Wisdom’s fault for letting Alioski having a free run into the box. 

I was trying to remain "Keogh-neutral" in my assessment overall

Essentially - You can blame Keogh for the goals/mistakes BUT I'd suggest there was just as much blame everywhere else and blaming Keogh takes a specific desire to blame him rather than it being obvious

[Bazal77]

It’s a team game, Keogh like everyone had a bad day at the office when it came to defending, instead of berating our players the fans should back them. If they didn’t make mistakes then either they wouldn’t be at derby or we would be at the top end of the premier league.

the team needs supporters especially at this critical time when we are learning and developing. 

Instead of criticising get behind Keogh! 

[Maestro]

Personally, I think it is a combination of different things that make Keogh look inept. His decision making when looking for a pass is seemingly extremely poor; this could be down to a) his decision making is extremely poor and/or b) there is literally no one to pass to. When going forward with the ball or looking for a forward pass, there is no where for him to go and no one to pass to. There's no defensive midfielder, or midfielder, dropping back to open up a passage of play. The only thing Keogh can do when trying to push the team up field is pass to the side or back to Carson. A lot of people here have already said that Huddlestone in place of Ledley may sort this out and would like Lampard to try this with the other midfielders being static instead of playing this quasi-total football with rotating midfielders around during play - it hasn't worked at all. The holes in midfield were there for all to see and I am sure Lampard must have been fuming with the way the gaps just appeared when Leeds countered us. I just hope that all the team mistakes have been made in the first two games and we can crack on and have a positive season.

[Hathersage Ram]

It's really interesting people's views on Chris Martin and Richard Keogh.

I have made my views on Chris Martin in the thread on his thread in transfer Rumours.

However my appreciation for Richard Keogh is high. As I have previously stated.

If a player (be it Keogh or a. n. other  DCFC player) gives his all, effort and determination wise, then I will always back him. As in life I appreciate hard work and effort above all else. Yes talent and ability are nice, but nothing without the former.

And in Richard Keogh, all I have ever seen is a guy who would put his body on the line for Derby, a man who gives his complete maximum effort, when he walks off a pitch at the end of the match, you watch him. He has given his all!

Also other posters on here who are lavish in their praise of CM choose to ignore other successful managers who didn't really rate CM, but they are derided. However, which manager (and we have had plenty) didn't play Keogh? I wonder why.

Keogh epitomises the strength of character we need, yes he hasn't had the best of starts to the season, he looks rusty, or maybe he is finding building a partnership with the midfield newcomers difficult. I don't know, but hopefully he will find his feet again quickly as we certainly need him, we have a lot of new players and I think we need some stability going forward.

[Seaside Sam]

20 hours ago, cannable said:

But, at this level, players who can head and kick it are usually limited to just that. 

Which usually means that can’t do the things with the ball that we want them to. 

Pearce is a prime example. He’s a beast, he’ll head anything that comes in the box and win headers from goal kicks. He was immense for the first half of Mac 1.

Then when we tried to take the game to teams post-Christmas he was woefully exposed off and on the ball. 

If you want to play from the back in this division you either need to find a produce a gem or accept that your centre-backs aren’t going to be amazing defenders. Ream and Kalas/Odoi last season with Fulham for example.

crap,do the simple thing something he has always struggled to do,third rate defender simple as that

[cannable]

2 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said:

crap,do the simple thing something he has always struggled to do,third rate defender simple as that

Good retort mate 

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, mastah said:

Personally, I think it is a combination of different things that make Keogh look inept. His decision making when looking for a pass is seemingly extremely poor; this could be down to a) his decision making is extremely poor and/or b) there is literally no one to pass to. When going forward with the ball or looking for a forward pass, there is no where for him to go and no one to pass to. There's no defensive midfielder, or midfielder, dropping back to open up a passage of play. The only thing Keogh can do when trying to push the team up field is pass to the side or back to Carson. A lot of people here have already said that Huddlestone in place of Ledley may sort this out and would like Lampard to try this with the other midfielders being static instead of playing this quasi-total football with rotating midfielders around during play - it hasn't worked at all. The holes in midfield were there for all to see and I am sure Lampard must have been fuming with the way the gaps just appeared when Leeds countered us. I just hope that all the team mistakes have been made in the first two games and we can crack on and have a positive season.

This is exactly what I think it is too

14 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said:

crap,do the simple thing something he has always struggled to do,third rate defender simple as that

You can only do the simple thing if that's an option... If there's no one to pass to then the simple option is back to the keeper - You want to watch a game where Keogh and Carson just keep passing it back and forth?

[Anon]

2 hours ago, cheron85 said:

Just re-watched the goals from the Leeds game

1) Lowe out of position, Ledley moved to cover, no DM cover - Ledley should have been exactly where the shot was taken from

2) Tomori woefully out of position/loses his man completely

3) Wilson (I think) stupidly loses the ball with a terrible pass - Tomori loses his man - Koegh gets beaten

4) Tomori misses the header, Lowe lost his man, Keogh lost his man

I think for the third you can possibly have a pop at Keogh but it would be a little unfair - Since the mistakes weren't his

The final goal is partly Koegh's faulty cos he did make an actual mistake there losing his man but I'd argue the bigger mistakes had already been made

I generally agree with your summary, but the more I watch the 2nd and 3rd goals, the more I think we just have to doff our caps to Roofe and say well played. He reads the trajectory of the cross so early for the 2nd goal, there's no way either Tomori or Lowe can adjust in time to get up and challenge with him. The 3rd is just exceptional skill, balance, and awareness. The touch to bring the ball under control and take it away from Tomori is great and the turn is executed extremely quickly when it looks like he's off balance and will need a moment to steady himself.

[Rample]

Keogh isn't a bad player, and on a good day can be one of our better performers. 

However, he is now synonymous with an era of failure and I think he should be moved on to allow everything else to progress.

It's so long since we started a season with a clean slate in defence. It looked like we might get a Pearce/Shackell partnership under Clement but that soon went South, and of course Shackell himself was returning. Hopefully we'll get new look one in 2019.

Always despair that new managers seem to make him captain too, which of course never helps the issue, surely Mel should interject some wisdom to his staff on things like this. 

[Seaside Sam]

47 minutes ago, cannable said:

Good retort mate 

i thought so

[Seaside Sam]

27 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

This is exactly what I think it is too

You can only do the simple thing if that's an option... If there's no one to pass to then the simple option is back to the keeper - You want to watch a game where Keogh and Carson just keep passing it back and forth?

when he could clear it he thinks he plays for Brazil and tries to pass it which is really beyond him,just do the easy thing if in doubt put it out,  Beckenbauer he ain't

[curb]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'll repeat what I said to another poster, the fact that some sloppy passes by Keogh are seen as more high profile blunders than Tomori costing us 2 goals, tells you all you need to know about the mindset of the Keogh bashers. 

Im not even defending his performances in the opening 2 games, he was very poor against Reading and not great against Leeds, but am completely baffled as to how he has been singled out for criticism following Saturdays defeat.

It isn't anything to do with his performance on Saturday.

They were on his back around me even before the second goal went in, the mistake at Reading made it acceptable (in their eyes) to start abusing him again, and losing to Leeds made him the obvious choice to vent their anger at.

[RoyMac5]

33 minutes ago, Rample said:

Keogh isn't a bad player, and on a good day can be one of our better performers. 

However, he is now synonymous with an era of failure and I think he should be moved on to allow everything else to progress.

It's so long since we started a season with a clean slate in defence. 

What’s the point of getting rid, it won’t be long before the knives were out for his replacement. Davies, Wisdom and Carson failed too, shall we get rid?

[BaaLocks]

Keogh has played under ten managers at Derby - yup, crazy stat but true. Since the start of the 2012/13 season he is one of only six players remaining (Wisdom - who went and came back, Martin, Thorne, Bryson, Forsyth, Bennett). Despite one spell last season he is the only player in that time that has been pretty much constant in our side.

Ten managers, umpteen backroom staff and every one of them has had faith in Keogh. I don't say they were all managers we are proud to have associated with the club but I find it amazing that not one of them seemed to see what many claim to be as blatant as the nose on their face.

Keogh is no world beater but he is a competent Championship defender, and I will take ten managers opinion on that as my proof.

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

I generally agree with your summary, but the more I watch the 2nd and 3rd goals, the more I think we just have to doff our caps to Roofe and say well played. He reads the trajectory of the cross so early for the 2nd goal, there's no way either Tomori or Lowe can adjust in time to get up and challenge with him. The 3rd is just exceptional skill, balance, and awareness. The touch to bring the ball under control and take it away from Tomori is great and the turn is executed extremely quickly when it looks like he's off balance and will need a moment to steady himself.

Fair shout

But I still think for their 2nd he was allowed to drift away cos Tomori had no idea where he was - Need to keep an eye on where your man is at all times

Him and Lowe show signs of their naivete when dealing with players

1 hour ago, Rample said:

However, he is now synonymous with an era of failure and I think he should be moved on to allow everything else to progress.

Way too simplistic for me - That's scapegoating at it's most fundamental

He's one of the few players who has always run himself into the ground - When we're playing badly he still gives everything - And he's a decent player at this level (top end of the championship) - We need more players of his attitude not less

45 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said:

when he could clear it he thinks he plays for Brazil and tries to pass it which is really beyond him,just do the easy thing if in doubt put it out,  Beckenbauer he ain't

Most of his mistakes so far this season haven't come from defensive plays but playing out from the back - When defending Keogh is pretty no-nonsense get-rid

The problem is he's getting no options to pass to after Carson passes out to him - What do you want him to do then? Just hoof it?

29 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Keogh is no world beater but he is a competent Championship defender, and I will take ten managers opinion on that as my proof.

This

I like to think that I've got a bit of an eye for how decent players are over the years of watching football - But managers spend every day working out who to pick in their side - Spend 6 days a week with them - Are paid to do it - Are the experts in their field

And they all seem to rate Keogh

[Seaside Sam]

3 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Fair shout

But I still think for their 2nd he was allowed to drift away cos Tomori had no idea where he was - Need to keep an eye on where your man is at all times

Him and Lowe show signs of their naivete when dealing with players

Way too simplistic for me - That's scapegoating at it's most fundamental

He's one of the few players who has always run himself into the ground - When we're playing badly he still gives everything - And he's a decent player at this level (top end of the championship) - We need more players of his attitude not less

Most of his mistakes so far this season haven't come from defensive plays but playing out from the back - When defending Keogh is pretty no-nonsense get-rid

The problem is he's getting no options to pass to after Carson passes out to him - What do you want him to do then? Just hoof it?

This

I like to think that I've got a bit of an eye for how decent players are over the years of watching football - But managers spend every day working out who to pick in their side - Spend 6 days a week with them - Are paid to do it - Are the experts in their field

And they all seem to rate Keogh

mate it's all about opinions and i just don't rate him sorry,commitment 10 /10 ability 4/10 just an opinion!

[cheron85]

3 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said:

mate it's all about opinions and i just don't rate him sorry,commitment 10 /10 ability 4/10 just an opinion!

Agreed - And you're opinion is noted

But opinions still need to be backed up by something significant - Otherwise it's not a very well reasoned opinion

Opinions are like farts - Everyone can come up with one - But most of them stink ?

[Seaside Sam]

5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Agreed - And you're opinion is noted

But opinions still need to be backed up by something significant - Otherwise it's not a very well reasoned opinion

Opinions are like farts - Everyone can come up with one - But most of them stink ?

only if they don't agree with yours,that's rubbish mate,every one is entitled to there opinion just because it doesn't agree with yours doesn't make it any less valid

[May Contain Nuts]

1 hour ago, Anon said:

I generally agree with your summary, but the more I watch the 2nd and 3rd goals, the more I think we just have to doff our caps to Roofe and say well played. He reads the trajectory of the cross so early for the 2nd goal, there's no way either Tomori or Lowe can adjust in time to get up and challenge with him. The 3rd is just exceptional skill, balance, and awareness. The touch to bring the ball under control and take it away from Tomori is great and the turn is executed extremely quickly when it looks like he's off balance and will need a moment to steady himself.

I didn't even think we could do a great deal for the first goal at the time.

Maybe he could have been closed down more quickly but it wouldn't have made all that much difference. He's shifted his weight and got the shot off quickly, our players don't have time to adjust before it's away and curling into the bottom corner but make a valliant effort to keep it out.