Crazy Keogh hating

[Ramchester]

On 12/08/2018 at 17:13, Wrightdcfc said:

No but for his first game against a very frightening attacking Leeds team he slotted in very well and did a grand job. His reading of the game and interceptions were great. He shone across the whole back four in my opinion. 

I’m fed up of people defending Keogh for the passion he has and effort he gives, ever thought maybe its all an act just to get managers, players and fans on his side? He’s had it too cushty here at Derby and would never want promotion because if we were to go up he would be out the door and should be now. 

I have tried to bite my tongue on this @Wrightdcfc but honestly, do you think it's just an act and that he wouldn't want Derby to be promoted? Thats the exact sort of crap that is being spouted that is just complete nonsense. You may not think he is an adequate centre half for us, but to debate his attitude is simply ridiculous.

Having had half a dozen managers pick him as their captain and a relative ever present since he's been here, I don't think his commitment or loyalty should be in debate. As for him not wanting Derby to be promoted, jeez, you are talking utter nonsense. 

Again I'm all for having a rational conversation about Keogh, maybe there are better options available, but his loyalty should never be questioned. 

[ram1964]

2 hours ago, Moist One said:

no, never said we haven't been promoted cos of him, I said people who say we wouldn't get promoted with him are correct.

Preposterous,and not correct cos he is still here and we have as much chance of promotion as in recent years.  So unproven.

i didn't realise football management was so easy? Obviously  any team without Keogh would have presumably got us promoted in the last 3 seasons usein g your logic, seasons

bloody he'll how could I have been so blind,how could GR ,SM,FL, the ostrich ,,PC be so blind ? Best ring Mel and let him know .

[Lokidoki]

Over the past few years it's been incredibly difficult to have a rational debate about RK, as it's become almost binary. However I did say in a thread , now a few years back, that he was prone to mistakes, usually at the most important of times. This is indisputable.

FL comes from an environment where it is career limiting to make mistakes and hopefully he can, over time, improve matters in this area, particularly in the final third and with the youngsters. 

There are some old dogs that simply cannot be taught new tricks and for the sake of holding up the progression of the rest of the team, they must be replaced.  We cannot support players that either panic, are nervous or are error prone.

And  that I am afraid, is the reality of football , no matter how much a player is committed, and how much you like him personally, if he isn't good enough he should go.

[TroyDyer]

1 hour ago, Paul71 said:

To the best of my knowledge he still plays for Derby?

If I made a prediction pre season that Man City wouldnt retain their title would I now be able to claim I was correct?

 

7 years later. 

[Derbyram1983]

Midfield and wingers were almost none existent so they were worse than Keogh 

[BondJovi]

GR dropped Keogh, stripped him of the armband. May have been the act of a desperate man but still...

I have said it before about people questioning Carson and his distribution, if he is good enough at that aspect for us to be a side that plays from the back? He is good enough for the level we are at and his actual goal keeping ability far outweighs any perceived weakness with the ball at his feet and hands.

Keogh looks comfortable on the ball. Davies far less so. But I don't believe the difference with what they actually achieve on the ball is that much, just Keogh looks at ease doing it. In terms of defending, Davies is a far  better defender.  Looks aren't everything.

Keogh is not crap, far from it. Just he isn't as good as some claim, nor as bad. But the weaknesses I believe he has are not ones I feel comfortable my CB having.

Not saying I agree with those who say we are the bottlers, but Keogh has remained the one constant...You can see why he gets some flak!

[1967Ram]

27 minutes ago, Lokidoki said:

Over the past few years it's been incredibly difficult to have a rational debate about RK, as it's become almost binary. However I did say in a thread , now a few years back, that he was prone to mistakes, usually at the most important of times. This is indisputable.

FL comes from an environment where it is career limiting to make mistakes and hopefully he can, over time, improve matters in this area, particularly in the final third and with the youngsters. 

There are some old dogs that simply cannot be taught new tricks and for the sake of holding up the progression of the rest of the team, they must be replaced.  We cannot support players that either panic, are nervous or are error prone.

And  that I am afraid, is the reality of football , no matter how much a player is committed, and how much you like him personally, if he isn't good enough he should go.

Totally agree. Frank and his team will decide. I suggest we all try to chill and enjoy the ride. COYR!

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, TroyDyer said:

Being linked with, and an offer being made are very different things. Being linked with can purely be lazy journalism, agent pushing for a new contract at Derby, or even those clubs pushing out Keogh interest to take eyes off where their genuine interest lay. 

6 years of being "the best centre half in the Championship" and not one offer. 

Are you privvy to all of the club transfer dealings then?

Of course the counter argument is 6 years of being a 'clown', 'liability', 'disgrace' etc and yet still manager after manager pick him, if only their untrained eyes could see what the expert fans could...

[TroyDyer]

25 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Are you privvy to all of the club transfer dealings then?

Of course the counter argument is 6 years of being a 'clown', 'liability', 'disgrace' etc and yet still manager after manager pick him, if only their untrained eyes could see what the expert fans could...

The counter argument to your counter argument, is that all failed to do what they were brought here to do, and all but Rowett were sacked as a result. 

[G STAR RAM]

5 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

The counter argument to your counter argument, is that all failed to do what they were brought here to do, and all but Rowett were sacked as a result. 

So in summary you believe that you are more qualified on judging players than MaCclaren, Clement, Wassall, Pearson, Rowett and Lampard because none of them got Derby promoted? 

I will leave Trapatoni out of the debate as he has never managed Derby.

Also no answer to my first question?

[TroyDyer]

So basically, the manager is always right? That kind of renders a football chat forum pretty redundant then. Whatever starting 11 Frank picks from now on will always be the best starting 11. If you don't agree, you're basically saying you're better than Frank lampard in matters football, and that is ridiculous. 

No not privvy, but it's my opinion ( it's a football forum?) that the lack of any stories, even in Hiit and other less itk publications, points toward there being a lack of bids and interest in him. Which would imo be completely understandable as his ability and wages would price him out of teams below, and lack of ability would turn him off the teams above. 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

[Sith Happens]

1 hour ago, TroyDyer said:

7 years later. 

Something else which is factually incorrect.

Of course if someone predicted we would never get promoted with keogh in the team, they can argue 'so far' they are correct. The same applies for Carson, Wisdom, Thorne, Bryson, Davies, Forsyth, Johnson and so on and so on. Never got promotion with Hughes or Ince or Vydra in the team and so on. 

However we wont know if they are correct until the day he leaves the club.

I for one hope they are wrong.

People claim he is the common denominator in us not gaining promotion. I'd personally say the common denominator is too many managers.

 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

25 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

So basically, the manager is always right? That kind of renders a football chat forum pretty redundant then. Whatever starting 11 Frank picks from now on will always be the best starting 11. If you don't agree, you're basically saying you're better than Frank lampard in matters football, and that is ridiculous. 

No not privvy, but it's my opinion ( it's a football forum?) that the lack of any stories, even in Hiit and other less itk publications, points toward there being a lack of bids and interest in him. Which would imo be completely understandable as his ability and wages would price him out of teams below, and lack of ability would turn him off the teams above. 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

Changed your tune? You usually slate him and call him cr*p!

[archied]

His biggest problem is he gets panicky overhyped , if he could find a way to calm his temperament he would be a far better defender and he would also look a better defender to fans who can see clearly when he goes on tilt

[Marriot Ram99]

36 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

So basically, the manager is always right? That kind of renders a football chat forum pretty redundant then. Whatever starting 11 Frank picks from now on will always be the best starting 11. If you don't agree, you're basically saying you're better than Frank lampard in matters football, and that is ridiculous. 

No not privvy, but it's my opinion ( it's a football forum?) that the lack of any stories, even in Hiit and other less itk publications, points toward there being a lack of bids and interest in him. Which would imo be completely understandable as his ability and wages would price him out of teams below, and lack of ability would turn him off the teams above. 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

Top 10 is a bit generous IMO  midtable mediocrity standard e.g  12 to 16 th placed teams is more realistic , he was good for most of last season but to say he has gone to poo this season would be a compliment,

[Seaside Sam]

On 11/08/2018 at 21:02, cannable said:

You don’t rate Shackell who’s an immaculate defender but average on the ball and don’t rate Keogh who’s excellent on the ball but is an average defender.

Just what exactly do you expect from a Championship centre-half? Baresi? 

just the simple thing like heading it and kicking it ,preferably to a team mate might be good!!

[Marriot Ram99]

6 minutes ago, archied said:

His biggest problem is he gets panicky overhyped , if he could find a way to calm his temperament he would be a far better defender and he would also look a better defender to fans who can see clearly when he goes on tilt

He is panicked because he try's too hard to always make an ambitious pass or run forward with the ball but most of the  time he doesn't have a clue what to do with the ball, he plays purely on instinct it seems but  as he has no composure or quality football brain  to make the right decisions under pressure, you can almost see the confusion on his face as he looks for an option. If we are to continue to play him, we need to have Huddlestone in the team so he can play it short to him.

[CapeTownRam]

16 minutes ago, archied said:

His biggest problem is he gets panicky overhyped , if he could find a way to calm his temperament he would be a far better defender and he would also look a better defender to fans who can see clearly when he goes on tilt

Even in his interviews he looks like he's tripping!

[curb]

49 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

So basically, the manager is always right? That kind of renders a football chat forum pretty redundant then. Whatever starting 11 Frank picks from now on will always be the best starting 11. If you don't agree, you're basically saying you're better than Frank lampard in matters football, and that is ridiculous. 

No not privvy, but it's my opinion ( it's a football forum?) that the lack of any stories, even in Hiit and other less itk publications, points toward there being a lack of bids and interest in him. Which would imo be completely understandable as his ability and wages would price him out of teams below, and lack of ability would turn him off the teams above. 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

So what are you trying to achieve with all this Keogh bashing?

You think we're going to be better off if we drum him out of the club?

The manager picks him because he's the best option. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks, screw this, I'm not putting myself on the line every week just to be abused by these morons, in my opinion I think Forsyth switched off two seasons ago when it first happened to him, and he puts in the minimum now that he can get away with, again if that's the case I wouldn't blame him one bit.

 

So what do you think all this is going to achieve? Do you think it's good for the club that we hound out our own players? 

[Eatonram]

Overall Keogh is a good defender, over a season he plays well on more occasions than he plays poorly. 

 

Scapegoating Keogh is an ugly part of some Derby supporter's personalities.