Crazy Keogh hating

[cannable]

6 minutes ago, Seaside Sam said:

just the simple thing like heading it and kicking it ,preferably to a team mate might be good!!

But, at this level, players who can head and kick it are usually limited to just that. 

Which usually means that can’t do the things with the ball that we want them to. 

Pearce is a prime example. He’s a beast, he’ll head anything that comes in the box and win headers from goal kicks. He was immense for the first half of Mac 1.

Then when we tried to take the game to teams post-Christmas he was woefully exposed off and on the ball. 

If you want to play from the back in this division you either need to find a produce a gem or accept that your centre-backs aren’t going to be amazing defenders. Ream and Kalas/Odoi last season with Fulham for example.

[cannable]

4 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

Overall Keogh is a good defender, over a season he plays well on more occasions than he plays poorly. 

 

Scapegoating Keogh is an ugly part of some Derby supporter's personalities.

The annoying thing about this thread is that nobody played well Saturday, many worse than Keogh and yet this thread pops up. 

And I don’t think it was a game to blame any of the players anyway - Lampard was just outthought by one of the most innovative coaches of modern time.

[Comrade 86]

He had a bad game. So did most of the team. All these folk queuing up to slaughter him are an embarrassment. Or maybe you lot know more than Stevie Mac, Lamps and the rest of them. What seems more likely? Any back four exposed the way ours was would have struggled. Even I can see that so you 'experts' really should know better. 

[swadieram]

I’m with Troy  never do anything with him in the side ! 

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, TroyDyer said:

 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

Not really sure how you can say he isn’t at the required level to get promoted, when worse players have.

Also, if he was part of Man City’s current XI in the Championship, are you saying they wouldn’t get promoted because of Keogh?

It’s a team game.

 

[TroyDyer]

51 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Changed your tune? You usually slate him and call him cr*p!

All about levels. At a top two promotion team, he's crap. 

[1967Ram]

23 minutes ago, cannable said:

The annoying thing about this thread is that nobody played well Saturday, many worse than Keogh and yet this thread pops up. 

And I don’t think it was a game to blame any of the players anyway - Lampard was just outthought by one of the most innovative coaches of modern time.

Top quality post. Spot on IMO.

[TroyDyer]

32 minutes ago, curb said:

So what are you trying to achieve with all this Keogh bashing?

You think we're going to be better off if we drum him out of the club?

The manager picks him because he's the best option. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks, screw this, I'm not putting myself on the line every week just to be abused by these morons, in my opinion I think Forsyth switched off two seasons ago when it first happened to him, and he puts in the minimum now that he can get away with, again if that's the case I wouldn't blame him one bit.

 

So what do you think all this is going to achieve? Do you think it's good for the club that we hound out our own players? 

 So the fans are responsible? 

[Rev]

30 minutes ago, cannable said:

But, at this level, players who can head and kick it are usually limited to just that. 

Which usually means that can’t do the things with the ball that we want them to. 

Pearce is a prime example. He’s a beast, he’ll head anything that comes in the box and win headers from goal kicks. He was immense for the first half of Mac 1.

Then when we tried to take the game to teams post-Christmas he was woefully exposed off and on the ball. 

If you want to play from the back in this division you either need to find a produce a gem or accept that your centre-backs aren’t going to be amazing defenders. Ream and Kalas/Odoi last season with Fulham for example.

Pearce didn't join the club until Clement was appointed.

[cannable]

1 minute ago, reveldevil said:

Pearce didn't join the club until Clement was appointed.

Mac 2* ?

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, TroyDyer said:

So basically, the manager is always right? That kind of renders a football chat forum pretty redundant then. Whatever starting 11 Frank picks from now on will always be the best starting 11. If you don't agree, you're basically saying you're better than Frank lampard in matters football, and that is ridiculous. 

No not privvy, but it's my opinion ( it's a football forum?) that the lack of any stories, even in Hiit and other less itk publications, points toward there being a lack of bids and interest in him. Which would imo be completely understandable as his ability and wages would price him out of teams below, and lack of ability would turn him off the teams above. 

I personally see him as a top 10 championship level. Which is a very high level of football, but not the level required to get promoted. Hence my saying we wouldn't get promoted with him in the starting 11, as in such a competitive league, where the margins are minute, him being partial to a brain fade, will cost too many points. 

No I don't think every manager is always right. I will often disagree with things managers do. Whether that makes me right or not is a different matter.

However, if on a certain subject 6 consecutive club managers and 2 international managers had held a different opinion to me on a player, I think I would be questioning my own judgement rather than theirs.

I can't agree with your last point at all. Over later season he would have contributed to a lot more points than he cost us, unfortunately only his mistakes seem to be remembered. Tell me a player at this level that does not make any mistakes? I could probably go through our whole squad and point out a mistake they made last season that cost us goals or points.

[Turnstile]

3 hours ago, Ramchester said:

I have tried to bite my tongue on this @Wrightdcfc but honestly, do you think it's just an act and that he wouldn't want Derby to be promoted? Thats the exact sort of crap that is being spouted that is just complete nonsense. You may not think he is an adequate centre half for us, but to debate his attitude is simply ridiculous.

Having had half a dozen managers pick him as their captain and a relative ever present since he's been here, I don't think his commitment or loyalty should be in debate. As for him not wanting Derby to be promoted, jeez, you are talking utter nonsense. 

Again I'm all for having a rational conversation about Keogh, maybe there are better options available, but his loyalty should never be questioned. 

Loyalty is staying at a club when you have a chance to move on,to my knowledge he has never had the chance to move on.

[curb]

17 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

 So the fans are responsible? 

Not responsible, but they play a big part. The atmosphere at the end of that season was toxic. Do you think it's easy for the players to play in that atmosphere, would you personally give your all week in week out in that situation? 

So answer the question instead of deflecting it, what are you trying to achieve bashing Keogh like this?

[Ramchester]

5 minutes ago, osmaston ram said:

Loyalty is staying at a club when you have a chance to move on,to my knowledge he has never had the chance to move on.

To your knowledge. To my knowledge I've never been picked and captained my country. To my knowledge.

[curb]

10 minutes ago, osmaston ram said:

Loyalty is staying at a club when you have a chance to move on,to my knowledge he has never had the chance to move on.

Of course he could have moved on, don't be ridiculous, one word to his agent and there'd be clubs queuing up to sign him.

[TroyDyer]

3 minutes ago, curb said:

Not responsible, but they play a big part. The atmosphere at the end of that season was toxic. Do you think it's easy for the players to play in that atmosphere, would you personally give your all week in week out in that situation? 

So answer the question instead of deflecting it, what are you trying to achieve bashing Keogh like this?

I'm voicing my opinion on a football forum. As is everyone else here. I don't remember it being off limits when Simon Dawkins took a hammering, or Raul Albentosa was called a donkey. Why is Richard off limits? I've not called him a nonce. I've just said I don't think he's good enough and will ultimately cost us. 

[Turnstile]

2 minutes ago, Ramchester said:

To your knowledge. To my knowledge I've never been picked and captained my country. To my knowledge.

Born in Essex ,he never captained England to my knowledge.

[TroyDyer]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

No I don't think every manager is always right. I will often disagree with things managers do. Whether that makes me right or not is a different matter.

However, if on a certain subject 6 consecutive club managers and 2 international managers had held a different opinion to me on a player, I think I would be questioning my own judgement rather than theirs.

I can't agree with your last point at all. Over later season he would have contributed to a lot more points than he cost us, unfortunately only his mistakes seem to be remembered. Tell me a player at this level that does not make any mistakes? I could probably go through our whole squad and point out a mistake they made last season that cost us goals or points.

I see him make the same mistakes again and again. I find that frustrating. But you're right, others do too. The difference is, the others get dropped, given a spell out the team or ultimately moved on. He, for whatever reason, seems to be above this. Personally I find that frustrating as many others do. 

[Ramchester]

1 minute ago, osmaston ram said:

Born in Essex ,he never captained England to my knowledge.

I was born in England, to a Scottish mother and an English father and live in Australia. I've captained non of them, although eligible to play for all. 

Keogh captained ROI U19's, 21's and the full side. 

I'm struggling to understand your point. 

[curb]

10 minutes ago, TroyDyer said:

I'm voicing my opinion on a football forum. As is everyone else here. I don't remember it being off limits when Simon Dawkins took a hammering, or Raul Albentosa was called a donkey. Why is Richard off limits? I've not called him a nonce. I've just said I don't think he's good enough and will ultimately cost us. 

Ah, the 'I'm entitled to my opinion' defence. 

You're not just voicing an opinion though, you're going out of your way to slate a player who's been an ever present in our team for what, five, six years.

I've compared this weekend's slating of Keogh to a shoal of pirhanas, one whiff of blood and you're all diving in there to get your dig in.

Again I'll ask, do you think this is good for the club?