Tom Lawrence

[thederbyram]

6 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Lawrence scored 6 goals last season and has 8 assists to his name.

Given how he was asked to play last season I would say that was a good return.

In the new system we are playing he could thrive, yesterday showed me how dangerous he can be.

Call me crazy but imo Lawrence will have outperformed his 14 goal contribution of last season by Christmas this year.

[Cam the Ram]

14 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

For once I'm 100% with @Bris Vegason this. The thread turned a little into would you rather sell Lawrence and Vydra and some have said Lawrence only had a relatively poor return last season because he played under Rowett and so had to fit in with Rowettball. Well, so did Vydra and he still scored 21 league goals.

Lawrence obviouly has considerable ability but he's a big fish in a small pond player. He is our most selfish attacker. That works if you're in a team where no one else is creating, and you have to do it all yourself, but it's not the way if your team is full of goals. I suspect this team will indeed be full of goals next season, all the more if players are constantly one-touch passing and setting each other up. That's just not Tom. He takes the ball, gets his head down and shoots or gets tackled, regardless of who might be better placed.

I don't mind having him in the side and obviously he showed yesterday he can contribute. But there were many times he should have passed and instead went alone. If anyone seriously offered £10m, as Bris says it's a no-brainer. We have three first teams and we have Wilson, Josefzoon, Thomas, Blackman and Anya who can also play the wide roles (not including the likes of Bennett who's done that before too).

I don't think it's really about the who would you rather sell that got a few people miffed, more so that he just popped up, called him crap, said he's worth £1.5 million and used some silly stats to berate him. The selling Lawrence over Vydra suggestion isn't a crazy one and is a good topic for debate, but he surely knew people would react to him just outright calling one of our players crap ?

[3766dan]

Surely with Stoke having just signed McClean and close to signing Ince they won’t be going after Lawrence?

I’d be very surprised to see Lawrence go this window. 

[Jourdan]

Whilst I don't rate Lawrence very highly and I don't think he has been value for money so far, he deserves more time to prove himself under a different manager with a different approach, and the outlook could be very different in 12 months' time.

We've seen with Vydra that a player's confidence and performance levels can be massively affected by the manager and the manager's relationship with the player. Some managers are just able to get the best out of particular players. 

I expect the same to be true of Lawrence and I suspect he is likely to flourish more under Lampard in a more attacking set up with more freedom and more fluidity.

I don't think £10 million is an offer that is too good to turn down, or a no-brainer. It would be rash at this point, especially when it appears as though he is in the manager's plans and has been responding well to the manager's methods.

Let's see what he can do. After all, if he improves like some people are suggesting he will, it's a win-win. Chances are we get promoted or we have a player worth upwards of £15 million on our hands.

[Comrade 86]

Bris, did your mum ignore you a lot as a small child?

[PistoldPete2]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Crazy talk.

Which bit is crazy? I mean we spent about £4.5  million on hud Davies and wisdom last summer and I don’t think that value will have gone down. Carson , Keogh etc all worth big fees .

[S8TY]

I can’t believe some are willing to sell TL ....it seemed to take an age to eventually get him in and with a pre season behind him and now playing for a manager who wants to play football some are contemplating getting rid !!! 

How about we try and offload the players who will have little chance of being involved much next season ....TL did not set his transfer fee and is a young player who I think will thrive under Frank and Jody ....because he tried to make things happen in a dull defensive side last season he’s getting some criticism.

he made some poor decisions yes but let Frank and Jody work with him and let’s see eh 

[mwram1973]

In his 1st season Vydra wasn't played in his natural position and didn't have a great season tbh. Last season he was and won the golden boot.

In his 1st season tom wasn't played in his natural position. This season he looks like he will be. 

Give him a fookin chance, he's got 15-20 goals in him all day long and it's obvious to see.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

The problem with last season is that the team revolved around 1 player, (Vydra)

The problem with that is that we then tried playing players in their wrong position just to play with Vydra in the team. He then got injured and we didn’t know what to do. 

This season you can see will be different because we will have players who can all just slot in when somebody either gets injured or just needs a rest. 

Rowett got the best out of a player who was struggling when he arrived. That unfortunately had a negative effect on a lot of other players, Tom Lawrence included. 

What frustrates me is that Rowett brought TL in and then didn’t know how to play him. 

[PistoldPete2]

Anyway stoke going for ince also £10 million. A better player than Lawrence imo . Seems that Rowett now agrees even tho he got rid of ince and signed Lawrence as his replacement. Very odd moves from Rowett.

[Day]

15 hours ago, Moist One said:

show me someone who doesn't take crap set pieces and I bet I can find 20 crap set pieces they've taken. He is still learning the game and if he played under Pep at Man City, you'd be excusing him like the comedy apologist you are. He's not poor technically at all, he's just inconsistent and affected by swings in confidence, partially caused by ludicrous level of expectation from unrealistic spectators. Remember he's probably not 150 games into his career yet and never had more than a season at the same club due to loans. 

Every player needs time to settle in and become part of the setup. I admit he doesn't make the right decisions, but that will come with experience. As for hiding, absolute poppycock pal. He's the most willing person we have to take the ball and try and force something to happen, it's the fact he tries to force it (and fails) that gets him criticised, when real fans would encourage him.

If yesterday was a league game at home, in front of 30k, he's have been groaned at so much in the first half, he wouldn't have scored the two in the 2nd half.

You cannot name a player who has NEVER given the ball away through technique or poor decision. Remember we aren't in the champions league, we aren't even in the PL, stop behaving like anyone unworthy of world class status isn't good enough for Derby! It's ignorant, churlish and embarrassing.

[minesahartington]

Not a drowning man quite yet but totally out of his depth..

[May Contain Nuts]

4 hours ago, CHCDerby said:

The problem with last season is that the team revolved around 1 player, (Vydra)

The problem with that is that we then tried playing players in their wrong position just to play with Vydra in the team. He then got injured and we didn’t know what to do. 

This season you can see will be different because we will have players who can all just slot in when somebody either gets injured or just needs a rest. 

Rowett got the best out of a player who was struggling when he arrived. That unfortunately had a negative effect on a lot of other players, Tom Lawrence included. 

What frustrates me is that Rowett brought TL in and then didn’t know how to play him. 

 

I'd say the team revolved around Huddlestone a lot more than Vydra.

Huddlestone getting the ball out wide to Weimann & Lawrence on the breakaway. Huddlestone playing it down the channels for Nugent & Jerome to chase. Huddlestone hitting long passes over the top for players running into the box (the number of times the ball reached Weimann, free of the last defender, and he couldn't deal with the ball... aaaargh).

Yes, all that did create space for Vydra, but it didn't exclude other people from the game - despite Vydra's totals we ended the season with the goals and assists spread about amongst more players than the previous season. Weimann getting 5 goals & 6 assists was a miracle, but that alone tells me that our play didn't really revolve around one player.

The biggest problem to me last season was how most of the attacks were poo-or-bust, there was an inordinate amount of pressure on players breaking away to make that pass correctly, no ball retention in the opposition's half, no second chances within in the same move, no player backing you up to pick up the pieces if you lost the ball.  You either got it right or the entire move broke down completely and the opposition started an attack.

It always seemed to be Lawrence & Weimann leading the charge in this regard, and unfortunately they got it wrong, a lot.  Even looking at the Fulham away play-off game,  with some intelligence between them we'd have put players clean through on goal on a number of occasions, but the passes were hit straight at the only defender in sight. (Aaaargh)

For Weimann I'd put that down to him genuinely having no footballing brain or technical ability, for Lawrence I'll put it down to inexperience, immaturity and a just a hint of desperation. To say he has no technical ability is nonsense, but he was guilty of a lot of the things that have been stated on this thread.

....and breathe

If you want to see a team truly revolve around 1 player then you only have to go back to 2016/17 with Ince, but I can't be bothered to go into length on that one (again) as I'll just end up getting shouted down by people who've given him Demigod status and believe him to be an unrivaled creative force for himself and teammates, an expert set piece taker, clinical finisher, visionary playmaker and other such guff.

[cheron85]

2 hours ago, minesahartington said:

Not a drowning man quite yet but totally out of his depth..

Bris or Lawrence?

I mean I only saw the highlights but it looked as if Lawrence had a pretty good game on Saturday against Premier League opponents - And a side who shouldn't be short on fitness since they've already played 2 mediumly-competitive games this pre-season

[Sparkle]

15 minutes ago, Coconut said:

 

I'd say the team revolved around Huddlestone a lot more than Vydra.

Huddlestone getting the ball out wide to Weimann & Lawrence on the breakaway. Huddlestone playing it down the channels for Nugent & Jerome to chase. Huddlestone hitting long passes over the top for players running into the box (the number of times the ball reached Weimann, free of the last defender, and he couldn't deal with the ball... aaaargh).

Yes, all that did create space for Vydra, but it didn't exclude other people from the game - despite Vydra's totals we ended the season with the goals and assists spread about amongst more players than the previous season. Weimann getting 5 goals & 6 assists was a miracle, but that alone tells me that our play didn't really revolve around one player.

The biggest problem to me last season was how most of the attacks were poo-or-bust, there was an inordinate amount of pressure on players breaking away to make that pass correctly, no ball retention in the opposition's half, no second chances within in the same move, no player backing you up to pick up the pieces if you lost the ball.  You either got it right or the entire move broke down completely and the opposition started an attack.

It always seemed to be Lawrence & Weimann leading the charge in this regard, and unfortunately they got it wrong, a lot.  Even looking at the Fulham away play-off game,  with some intelligence between them we'd have put players clean through on goal on a number of occasions, but the passes were hit straight at the only defender in sight. (Aaaargh)

For Weimann I'd put that down to him genuinely having no footballing brain or technical ability, for Lawrence I'll put it down to inexperience, immaturity and a just a hint of desperation. To say he has no technical ability is nonsense, but he was guilty of a lot of the things that have been stated on this thread.

....and breathe

If you want to see a team truly revolve around 1 player then you only have to go back to 2016/17 with Ince, but I can't be bothered to go into length on that one (again) as I'll just end up getting shouted down by people who've given him Demigod status and believe him to be an unrivaled creative force for himself and teammates, an expert set piece taker, clinical finisher, visionary playmaker and other such guff.

Yes I consider this to be correct ?

[Sparkle]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Bris or Lawrence?

I mean I only saw the highlights but it looked as if Lawrence had a pretty good game on Saturday against Premier League opponents - And a side who shouldn't be short on fitness since they've already played 2 mediumly-competitive games this pre-season

And a manager making excuses for a pitiful performance ( I was there and we were great mind ) 

[minesahartington]

5 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Anyway stoke going for ince also £10 million. A better player than Lawrence imo . Seems that Rowett now agrees even tho he got rid of ince and signed Lawrence as his replacement. Very odd moves from Rowett.

Drowning man was reference to the last sentence.

Tom can be a star. I measure no player against their shackled performances last season. If allowed to play I believe they will all improve. Even Vydra who I believe flourished despite his manager hence why he tailed off and appeared miserable at he end of the season when the team played scared.

[duncanjwitham]

1 hour ago, cheron85 said:

I mean I only saw the highlights but it looked as if Lawrence had a pretty good game on Saturday against Premier League opponents - And a side who shouldn't be short on fitness since they've already played 2 mediumly-competitive games this pre-season

He had a really good game, and that was in large part down to having other players near him.  On Saturday, if he received the ball, he had Lowe bombing past him, and Mount and Bryson making runs into space. Lawrence could then either take it on himself, or lay it off and move into space himself, both of which he did well at times.  Compare that to last season when he would pick the ball up and there wouldn't be another derby player within 30 yards, and his only option was to try and dribble past 5 defenders.

Obviously one preseason game doesn't mean that much, but he looked massively more comfortable in Lampard's system than he did in Rowett's.

[Premier ram]

10 million , NO chance Rowett , crawl back under your rock , high hopes for Tom this season , saturday was just a start

[BriggRam]

11 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said:

Anyway stoke going for ince also £10 million. A better player than Lawrence imo . Seems that Rowett now agrees even tho he got rid of ince and signed Lawrence as his replacement. Very odd moves from Rowett.

Desperation