Gaspode Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 55 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Do we KNOW? No. But the reports when the Waghorn interest was announced said that Derby want both, but the Waghorn deal is dependent on the Vydra deal, while the Marriott deal will get completed before. The last part was true. Yet to see if the first part is. I know what the reports said - that's why I asked the question - so far the conclusions on here (not the most scientific way to determine anything) are that we are definitely trying to bring him in - I'm suggesting that we/the rumour-mongers are putting 2+2 together and potentially coming up with anything but 4..... Regardless of the truth or otherwise, those people slating Mel/the club for contemplating buying Waghorn need to take a good look at themselves - so far, the transfer window has been one of the most positive for many seasons - we need to trust that they're not going to suddenly have a breakdown and splash shed loads of money on a player that isn't worth it - and if any deal does go through and involves shifting deadwood such as Buttocks or Blackman for anything over 20p each, then it should be considered a good deal - the alternative is to let them run down their expensive contracts while not getting anywhere near the first team....a bad outcome for all sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, eddie said: I. Read that. In William. Shatner's. Voice. I read it. In Christopher. Walkens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Rampage said: Should have kept Vydra. He is a known quantity and can score freely. Whatever system we play, give him the ball and he will score. You say he can play in any system yet in the 2 seasons prior to last his return was 8 goals in 64 games - hardly free scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Just now, DCFC1388 said: Doesnt matter who will miss out initially, its a 46 game season with plenty of midweek games and players will pick injuries & suspensions. Also, with the way we are likely to play with the high & fast press I can see 2 of the front 3 subbed each game and the wingers probably rotated to keep them all fresh. Cant rely on just a set 3 to do the business, thats where we went wrong last season with Vydra, nobody else contributed enough towards the goals Exactly! Why can't some people see this? All 5 of Wilson, Marriott, Lawrence, Waghorn, Jozefzoon (Bennett, Thomas) would appear in every game at some point! I imagine that if Waghorn were to sign then Vydra, Jerome, Nugent & Martin must all be available for transfer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Carnero said: Exactly! Why can't some people see this? All 5 of Wilson, Marriott, Lawrence, Waghorn, Jozefzoon (Bennett, Thomas) would appear in every game at some point! I imagine that if Waghorn were to sign then Vydra, Jerome, Nugent & Martin must all be available for transfer? Just imagine being a defender and ran ragged by Waghorn & Wilson for an hour, see them going off and think thank god, but then Marriott & Jozefzoon come on ?? I must add that id keep Jerome as another option as end of last season showed he can still bully & harrass defenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Rampage said: Sparkling insight. ? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richinspain Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, eddie said: I. Read that. In William. Shatner's. Voice. 19 minutes ago, Rample said: I read it. In Christopher. Walkens. I'm still. Trying to. Read. It! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, Carnero said: Exactly! Why can't some people see this? All 5 of Wilson, Marriott, Lawrence, Waghorn, Jozefzoon (Bennett, Thomas) would appear in every game at some point! I imagine that if Waghorn were to sign then Vydra, Jerome, Nugent & Martin must all be available for transfer? Average age of the first group of forwards is 23, compared with 30 for the second so it's probably indicative of the type of high energy, pressing game Lampard is looking to play - for the full 90 minutes. Add Mount and Bryson supporting from midfield then it becomes vital that the defensive midfielder, first and foremost, can defend so I'd go for Ledley rather than Huddlestone- we won't be so dependant on Toms' raking cross-field passing to spring attacks which was the case last season under Rowett (ideally I would have liked us to have signed a younger CDM so maybe in the January window and bed him in for the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 8 hours ago, RamLad1884 said: Genuine question, where do you fit Vydra? No matter what way you look at him he simply cannot fit the system we have now. I have no problem with us selling Vydra, so playing devil's advocate with this answer, but one of the problems in recent seasons is that we've been too reliant on playing one way, or having one system. Schteve just didn't seem to know how to adapt when we were rumbled, and it took Snake about three months to figure out something different. That being the case, just because a player doesn't fit into our system of choice doesn't mean that we couldn't utilise him as part (perhaps a key part) of an alternative system. Of course this being said, he's an expensive option to have on the bench 'just because'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 The main positive I can see from all of this activity is that - whether or not you agree that a fast paced high-pressing game is the right thing to do - the team and squad is being built to the stated PLAN. Compare to Snakey's "need a bit more athleticism and dynamism in midfield" and "fast transitions through the thirds" then signing up the PFA's seniors to belt 50 yard balls into space in the hope that either Lawrence or Vydra could latch on to them.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted July 27, 2018 Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Average age of the first group of forwards is 23, compared with 30 for the second so it's probably indicative of the type of high energy, pressing game Lampard is looking to play - for the full 90 minutes. Add Mount and Bryson supporting from midfield then it becomes vital that the defensive midfielder, first and foremost, can defend so I'd go for Ledley rather than Huddlestone- we won't be so dependant on Toms' raking cross-field passing to spring attacks which was the case last season under Rowett (ideally I would have liked us to have signed a younger CDM so maybe in the January window and bed him in for the following season. We have been linked with George Evans from Reading, 23 I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamLad1884 Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, StaffsRam said: I have no problem with us selling Vydra, so playing devil's advocate with this answer, but one of the problems in recent seasons is that we've been too reliant on playing one way, or having one system. Schteve just didn't seem to know how to adapt when we were rumbled, and it took Snake about three months to figure out something different. That being the case, just because a player doesn't fit into our system of choice doesn't mean that we couldn't utilise him as part (perhaps a key part) of an alternative system. Of course this being said, he's an expensive option to have on the bench 'just because'..... Good point, even under different formations I'd say we've got the players to change it if needed. Lawrence seemed to play best when down the middle at Ipswich, if we play with a formation with a CAM then that'll probably be his to lose. £11 mill is a lot of money, it seems it will have pretty much funded our entire summer to make a stronger team at the loss of our best player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 1 hour ago, SaintRam said: I think we'll move on if we're forced to pay £8m. The reported figure is £4m + £4m if we get promoted. Which seems more likely, and very reasonable. If Ipswich hold out for more, we'll move on. For how much Ipswich paid for him and his age this one season has grossly inflated his value. I would rather look elsewhere as I don't think it is the right price. But I trust Lampard and if he gets us promoted and Waghorn is a big player for us I will love to eat my words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: Average age of the first group of forwards is 23, compared with 30 for the second so it's probably indicative of the type of high energy, pressing game Lampard is looking to play - for the full 90 minutes. Add Mount and Bryson supporting from midfield then it becomes vital that the defensive midfielder, first and foremost, can defend so I'd go for Ledley rather than Huddlestone- we won't be so dependant on Toms' raking cross-field passing to spring attacks which was the case last season under Rowett (ideally I would have liked us to have signed a younger CDM so maybe in the January window and bed him in for the following season. We have Hanson and Bird who might be able to step us this season in that position (Bird for a few games) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuskus Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 We don’t really need Waghorn as he is 28 and will cost us a lot as he only joined Ipswich last season for 250,000. And I feel like Ipswich will play hardball with us and demand more as they have seen we have got 11m from Vydra (if it does happen). So I think we should just get a different striker who is cheaper and younger which would be a good alternative to Marriott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, Kuskus said: We don’t really need Waghorn as he is 28 and will cost us a lot as he only joined Ipswich last season for 250,000. And I feel like Ipswich will play hardball with us and demand more as they have seen we have got 11m from Vydra (if it does happen). So I think we should just get a different striker who is cheaper and younger which would be a good alternative to Marriott. But any new team we want to deal with will also know we got £11m for Vydra - if he goes for that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, eddie said: I. Read that. In William. Shatner's. Voice. Fingers too fat for his phone and keep getting extra full stops. It is a unique gift. Beam me up Scott Carson Warp. Drive. 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 4 hours ago, RamLad1884 said: Good point, even under different formations I'd say we've got the players to change it if needed. Lawrence seemed to play best when down the middle at Ipswich, if we play with a formation with a CAM then that'll probably be his to lose. £11 mill is a lot of money, it seems it will have pretty much funded our entire summer to make a stronger team at the loss of our best player. I will be convinced about selling Vydra when we start banging goals in from new signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 5 hours ago, Wolfie20 said: You say he can play in any system yet in the 2 seasons prior to last his return was 8 goals in 64 games - hardly free scoring. When we gave him the ball he scored, so give him the ball already. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 6 hours ago, eddie said: I. Read that. In William. Shatner's. Voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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