RamNut Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, coneheadjohn said: Martin doesn’t fit our style of play,neither would Hughesy or Cyrus. Ince would be great but you can’t turn down 11 million or deny him his premier league move. I don't agree. the holding players are virtually stood on the toes of the centre halves, so we are deep. A centre forward who drops deep might actually help. Weimann, vydra and lawrence can run beyond. And christie is simply an attacking full back. Fits any system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 This hysteria is a bit much. We created a load of chances last night so I would say the midfield did it's job. The people that didn't do their job was the back four who went AWOL for both goals and the forwards for lacking any composure. Maybe Martin would have tucked away a couple of chances but he wouldn't have covered nearly as much ground or prrssed defenders anywhere near as well as Nugent so we might not have created as much. You cant talk in absolutes like its official that player X is better than player Y. The fact is with all the amazing players you mention that have left we still didn't get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 All of those players listed who are generally accepted to be better than what we have wanted to leave, as alpha said. They were seeing their manager change multiple times a year and not making any progress. Of course they wanted to leave. Let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, RamNut said: I don't agree. the holding players are virtually stood on the toes of the centre halves, so we are deep. A centre forward who drops deep might actually help. Weimann, vydra and lawrence can run beyond. And christie is simply an attacking full back. Fits any system. Christie was great going forward,but not good enough defensively. Disagree on Martin but I agree the gap between the CDM’s and the forwards always worries me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Mafiabob said: Wish some folk would sing a certain song from a Disney film...... Baird Necessities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, YouRams said: Ledley has had one bad game coming back from injury, was class before that. Hughes and Elsnick are completely different players and wouldn’t fit the current system. Martin had his chances this season and looked as ineffective and uninterested as he’s ever looked. Christie was a poor defender and had one good game in 10 going forward. Rowetts been right in everything he’s done other than two maybe three things for me. Letting JR go without a replacement (even though I think we needed better than JR). Lawrence for 7m Leicester have had our pants down. And signing Jerome instead of a real quality inform striker. We’ve given second place up in January imo. The problem with real quality inform strikers is that they cost lots of money. And we don't have lots of money. So GR had to bring in the best he could within a very tight budget. It's unfortunate Winnall got injured so soon after the window closed or we wouldn't be having this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Mass hysteria in the original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazloW Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 There was no greater fan of Will Hughes than me, but the harping on about selling him has to stop now. Firstly, I don't think he was the same player after the injury and two managers in succession didn't fancy him that much in the team. Secondly, when it was clear he was available for not stupid money, there was no stampede to sign him. Both of these things suggest that others weren't seeing what we as fans of a local lad with masses of talent were seeing. Thirdly, I think it was time for him to go. He should be playing at a higher level and was stagnating here. I want to see him fulfil his potential and I don't think that would have happened here. Selling Ince for £11m was a no brainer for me too. He was good, but not irreplaceable (imho). I really don't think Lawrence is as bad as some make out. He isn't as effective as Ince yet obviously, but I see a player in there. I seem to recall, not everybody was that enamoured with Ince at first either(or Vydra, or Teale!!) Christie vs Wisdom? Come on. There isn't really that much in it perhaps, but its a move I would have made. Christie flattered to decieve so much and was extremely wasteful in good positions. No great loss there and I think the comment is also daft when looking at our defensive record this season (perhaps largely down to Baird - which also suggests selling Christie hasn't had a big impact). Disappointed Martin has gone, but again not the player he was for us. Not instrumental in getting us to 2nd, so can't see that his going will be instrumental in finishing outside the top 2. I guess if we could have predicted Winnall's injury it might have been different. Ledley has been really good and totally different player to Will. I thought he and Tom played really well last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ince was always going to leave because he had a good season but I’d have kept Hughes. I think he would have worked well on the right wing with the licence to drift inside then have a bombing full back like Christie to overlap him. His best football came when he played on the inside right channel. Id have rather seen that then Johnson on the wing. Hughes would have provided this team with more creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 7 hours ago, TommyPowel said: so how come we are still in the championship? Because Grant, Thorne, Keogh, Buxton, Bryson, Butterfield etc weren’t good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raich Carter Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Jerome better or worse than Martin? No idea, he's only been here 5 minutes. To make a judgement already is more than harsh - it's daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 10 hours ago, Ram8 said: Nugent .. ? better than Martin Jerome .. ? better than Martin Ledley .. ? better than Hughes Ledley .. ? better than Elsnick Wisdom .. ? better than Christie Yes, I know, put it like that and Rowett’s decisions and preferences re the above players are now looking even more ludicrous (not to mention costly re our chances of retaining ‘top two automatics’) than they did when he made his judgements on letting our better players go on loan, or be sold; and chose inferior (and less talented) players in their places ! So, come on then, anyone who thinks that Rowett’s decisions re the above players (and in particular letting Martin and Hughes go) hasn’t cost us our top two position .. Justify your views after Nugent, Jerome and Ledley’s totally ineffective contributions tonight; and tell me how you believe that having Martin and Hughes in our team would not have given us a win tonight .. God it’s like groundhog day nugent better than Martin ? Yes Jerome better than Martin? Debatable but Jerome has reached a far higher level in his career than I reckon Martin will ledley better than hughes? Do me a favour they are different players bought to play different roles ,,, see elsnick wisdom better than Christie? Course not Christie is the best left back in the division ,, yea right ,in Christie’s head , now you state rowett has cost us top two as if he has come in when we were second and blown it ,, was it not rowett and those players you diss above that got us to top two or have I had a Dallas shower moment ? justify my position ,,, tell you what I will evaluate my position at the end of the season when I can make a fair reasoned judgement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Mafiabob said: Wish some folk would sing a certain song from a Disney film...... Let it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr Giggles said: Let it go? Now ince is the king of the wingers the derby vip but He s reached the top been quite a flop and we may get him back on a free Oh oh hughsey do them injuries troubling you we gonna miss you true but palmers comming through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 We did sell our best assets to be honest. GR thought he could do better with less,that's his prerogative though I think it was wrong in my humble opinion. My five penneth is that if Mac had stayed then the team would have stayed together for at least one more season for a last push. Hughes,ince and russell would have relished the thought of a proper crack at the championship under him with Martin,bryson and a few new additions but would moved on after this season if it had failed. If imagine after half a,season under rowett last year that they knew the writing was on the wall and their style of play wasn't going to suit. Just my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The selling bit was ok with me, we just haven't brought in adequate cover on the evidence so far. If we get Lawrence and Nuge back in form it won't really matter but that's yet to be seen. We've gone from having a big squad with plenty of options all performing to a smaller one with too many out of form players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manicsheepreacher Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 As regards to upgrades or not, I think it's more a question of building a more cohesive and organised side with a better team spirit which I'd say this team definitely has more than previous ones. What I like about this team in particular is its lack of ego. It's definitely a case of for the many and not the few : ) Which I think if you look at some, or all of the players we've moved on, then I think ego and entitlement were an issue, and had a draining effect when the going got tough. In regards to Martin if we didn't play to his strengths then he was more often than not just a passenger in the team. How many times was he labeled as a 'sulky' player for us? The same could be said for Ince too, though both were match winners the body language of both at times was quite petulant to say the least. Both had an air of entitlement about them a lot, which you quite simply don't feel to the same extent as in the past with Rowett's team. The new crop pull their sleeves up and keep at it. And I think a distinct lack of ego is helping. I don't know about you, but I seriously reckon a MaClaren team, with all its stars would have lost that game last night. Hughes on the other hand, for all his talents was ultimately growing stale here, and needed a different challenge to prove that he can raise his game and be more influential in games. Ultimately, the big time Charlie mentality needed bringing down a peg or two, and I think we're much better placed as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Ince is the only one of those we really miss. Derby would look a vastly better side with Ince in the team, he's simply irreplaceable at this level. Scored so many goals, and single handedly dragged us through a few games. I said at the time, and I maintained, Lawrence was never going to be able to live up to that. I'd like to wager that Derby with Tom Ince would be in the top two. It makes his detractors look quite foolish now. But it's alright, because our players now smile and run around, so they're clearly better players than Ince! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRammy Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Ram8 said: Nugent .. ? better than Martin Jerome .. ? better than Martin Ledley .. ? better than Hughes Ledley .. ? better than Elsnick Wisdom .. ? better than Christie Yes, I know, put it like that and Rowett’s decisions and preferences re the above players are now looking even more ludicrous (not to mention costly re our chances of retaining ‘top two automatics’) than they did when he made his judgements on letting our better players go on loan, or be sold; and chose inferior (and less talented) players in their places ! So, come on then, anyone who thinks that Rowett’s decisions re the above players (and in particular letting Martin and Hughes go) hasn’t cost us our top two position .. Justify your views after Nugent, Jerome and Ledley’s totally ineffective contributions tonight; and tell me how you believe that having Martin and Hughes in our team would not have given us a win tonight .. Martin .......... we bottled it with him Martin ........... we bottled it with him Hughes.......... we bottled it with him Elsnick............ didntnt play as far as I know Christie...............we bottled it with him We have changed most of the personel at Derby and still we bottle it I really don't know what it is . If you honestly think this is just a blip your deluded. Everytime the crunch comes we cant seem to handle the pressure , happens everytime. And if we cant HANDLE THIS ....what happens when we do actually go up and we have to deal with everyone ABSOLUTLEY everyone banging on about 12 points imagine the pressure they wil lbe under then esp if we start bad. I'm fed up truly fed up with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 13 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Magnum ... ? better than Cornetto Stan ...? Better than Ollie chalk ....? Better than cheese Which cheese ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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