rynny Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, Sparkle said: That’s very true and looking at his career we probably got away with it as he has usually done much worse Got away with what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, Spanish said: that's a bit harsh Russell was playing his best football in some time when he left, Martin hasn't been on it for a lot longer than GR's time, Tom was starting to look dangerous before his injury. Nuge well there is a worry but not certain it can be laid at GR's feet. Wieman playing better and as you say Vyds is on fire. Not much proof here of this being a failing of GR Russell was playing nowhere near his peak,Martin was great for Fulham,Tom is still struggling to get on form,Nugent isxwell off it at the moment and vydra has been on fire but not for quite a few games now. Seems a lot can be attributed to gr in my opinion. In same way he can be credited with improvements with hudders,Curtis and keogh etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Russell was playing nowhere near his peak,Martin was great for Fulham,Tom is still struggling to get on form,Nugent isxwell off it at the moment and vydra has been on fire but not for quite a few games now. Seems a lot can be attributed to gr in my opinion. In same way he can be credited with improvements with hudders,Curtis and keogh etc. oh give over CM last scored in April 2016 for us, 11 months before GR arrived. His decline cannot be seen as a clear example that GR can't manage flair players. JR is in and out over a season and was certainly in before he left i.e no proof GR can't manage flair players. Tom is not much different now than he was when he first joined us. You probably don't care but you have not persuaded me that GR has a problem with flair players using this evidence, if you could call it that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, rynny said: Got away with what? Spending and probably wasting plenty of £ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 16 minutes ago, Spanish said: oh give over CM last scored in April 2016 for us, 11 months before GR arrived. Come on mate… really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 18 hours ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: He's the manager tho Bob,it's his job to adapt the team to his ideas and vice versa....if you can balance it out as well,all to the good. Every manager gets the same amount of time to do this per season. As far as I can see we currently only have one way of winning a game (vydra) so I'm not sure what our different ways of winning a game is as we have sold or loaned out our crown Jewels (to get back on topic) which limits our options. Not saying Gary's doing a bad job at all,it's remarkable that we are where we are,but we are in a rut because we can't find another way to win. Seems to me that we're in a rut because a variety of players (including Vyds) haven't taken the chances on offer. Not much a manager can do about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 45 minutes ago, Sparkle said: Spending and probably wasting plenty of £ So where has he spent, and wasted, loads of money? Forest? Spent £2m. They had spent £2m the season before that and £7m the season before that, and £6m the season after Mac. Newcastle? They have a transfer panel and managers weren't really given much of an option on who was bought and how much for. Yes they spent £100m but it was on young players with potential, and sold 3 of those for £60m the following summer. Oh and Newcastle's record signing is Michael Owen. You will have to show me how much he wasted at Wolfsburg, Twente and Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 19 hours ago, archied said: Can’t agree cash ,it’s blatantly ignoring the obvious and peddling a party line ( for some) of agricultural defensive manager that can’t handle flair or even big personality players with a view on the game and team tactics ,,, rowetts main signing is flair player ,,, Curtis Davies is a very big personality and very vocal and a very strong character,I fact I’m willing to bet hudds and Ledley are no shrinking violets or yes men ,,,, now you know I’m backing rowett as the best option available to us at this point and believe he has potential but I certainly don’t feel I have to back every move he makes ,he has and will make mistakes ,,, I don’t rubbish previous managers input on the basis that I think rowett is the right man at this time, for me the post was spouting a lot of stuff that has no real basis other than what he wants the picture of rowett as a manger to fit Curtis Davies a flair player ?.. you cannot be serious. He is a very good player and has improved our defence significantly but he's no Todd/McFarland or Stimac . Does he score goals? Is he good at passing the ball to others? Does he control the ball with great skill ? Nope Would like to see your dictionary definition of 'flair'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, DRBee said: Curtis Davies a flair player ?.. you cannot be serious. He is a very good player and has improved our defence significantly but he's no Todd/McFarland or Stimac . Does he score goals? Is he good at passing the ball to others? Does he control the ball with great skill ? Nope Would like to see your dictionary definition of 'flair'. Pretty sure he’s on about Lawrence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBee Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Spanish said: oh give overCM last scored in April 2016 for us, 11 months before GR arrived. You are not big on facts and their interpretation are you. Were you there when Martin scored for us this season? Can a player score for us when they are out on loan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, DRBee said: Curtis Davies a flair player ?.. you cannot be serious. He is a very good player and has improved our defence significantly but he's no Todd/McFarland or Stimac . Does he score goals? Is he good at passing the ball to others? Does he control the ball with great skill ? Nope Would like to see your dictionary definition of 'flair'. Think you’ve read that post wrong to be fair. He’s talking Lawerence, he then goes into talking about Davies after..... think you’ve got wires crossed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, DRBee said: Curtis Davies a flair player ?.. you cannot be serious. He is a very good player and has improved our defence significantly but he's no Todd/McFarland or Stimac . Does he score goals? Is he good at passing the ball to others? Does he control the ball with great skill ? Nope Would like to see your dictionary definition of 'flair'. I read it as "Rowett's main signing was a flair player (Lawrence). Then you have Curtis Davies who is a very big personality." Not that Davies is a flair player. I could be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, Mafiabob said: Think you’ve read that post wrong to be fair. He’s talking Lawerence, he then goes into talking about Davies after..... think you’ve got wires crossed Not just me then who read it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, DRBee said: You are not big on facts and their interpretation are you. Were you there when Martin scored for us this season? Can a player score for us when they are out on loan? oh ok I googled the story and picked one form DET which was wrong, sorry. I guess I was in Spain at the time to answer your question. the point is that CM has had problems in front of goal at times when GR wasn't manager. Are you trying to make the argument that he has scored under GR and therefore GR can manage flair players if so I agree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Not this argument........again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 54 minutes ago, rynny said: So where has he spent, and wasted, loads of money? Forest? Spent £2m. They had spent £2m the season before that and £7m the season before that, and £6m the season after Mac. Newcastle? They have a transfer panel and managers weren't really given much of an option on who was bought and how much for. Yes they spent £100m but it was on young players with potential, and sold 3 of those for £60m the following summer. Oh and Newcastle's record signing is Michael Owen. You will have to show me how much he wasted at Wolfsburg, Twente and Boro. I don’t have an issue with you and I said he did well with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistaram Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 On 22/02/2018 at 00:04, Ram8 said: Nugent .. ? better than Martin Jerome .. ? better than Martin Ledley .. ? better than Hughes Ledley .. ? better than Elsnick Wisdom .. ? better than Christie Yes, I know, put it like that and Rowett’s decisions and preferences re the above players are now looking even more ludicrous (not to mention costly re our chances of retaining ‘top two automatics’) than they did when he made his judgements on letting our better players go on loan, or be sold; and chose inferior (and less talented) players in their places ! So, come on then, anyone who thinks that Rowett’s decisions re the above players (and in particular letting Martin and Hughes go) hasn’t cost us our top two position .. Justify your views after Nugent, Jerome and Ledley’s totally ineffective contributions tonight; and tell me how you believe that having Martin and Hughes in our team would not have given us a win tonight .. Don't ever blame Rowett for Hughes laving he told him he wanted Prem football We still have chance of finishing top two something we never achieved with Martin and Hughes in the team ( less talented players in their place ) Huddleston and Ledley have done things in the game Hughes and Martin can only dream of We've only lost six times all season ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mistaram said: Don't ever blame Rowett for Hughes laving he told him he wanted Prem football We still have chance of finishing top two something we never achieved with Martin and Hughes in the team ( less talented players in their place ) Huddlestone and Ledley have done things in the game Hughes and Martin can only dream of We've only lost six times all season ffs Didn't rowett openly tell ince his services weren't required this season? And perhaps Hughes decided after half a season with rowett that it wasn't going to suit him (as per Russell)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, DRBee said: Curtis Davies a flair player ?.. you cannot be serious. He is a very good player and has improved our defence significantly but he's no Todd/McFarland or Stimac . Does he score goals? Is he good at passing the ball to others? Does he control the ball with great skill ? Nope Would like to see your dictionary definition of 'flair'. No Davies not a flair player with Davies I was refering to the also stated part that rowett couldn’t manage players with big personalities/ egos who have their own ideas on how a game should be played or managed ,,,, read the post I was replying to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 22 hours ago, Ram8 said: Good to see that there are some who agree with (most or some of) my views, and as I expected, many who disagree .. However, whilst I can accept the validity of the view that an individual manager might want to build a team to his own plan / in his own image, as Rowett has plainly done, that doesn’t necessarily follow that he always gets it right, or that it proves to be successful; and looking at the reasons that are coming up for Rowett’s rejection of the abilities of (for instance) Martin, Hughes and Christie, then I think there are other reasons that one might like to consider for his inability to integrate them into his tactical and personnel plans .. Hughes and Christie, both players with flair and technical ability, I believe that he wasn’t prepared to put in the work necessary to integrate their individuality into his rigid system .. Martin I think was too big a personality for him to integrate into the rigidity and inflexibility of his tactical philosophy, because Martin has an ego and confidence that (because of his technical ability and vision on the field, not something that can be coached in or out of a player) could challenge Rowett’s views of the ‘setting up’ of a game, or the unfolding of a game’s direction. This ‘attitude’ of Martin’s, seen by many as petulance or sulking, was actually the passion of a player who could ‘read’ a game a few pages ahead of most of his team mates, and became (justifiably) frustrated at times when some of them lost the plot ! McLaren used this personality trait of Martin’s, and incorporated it as an integral part of the team’s philosophy; Rowett saw it as disruptive, merely because he seems to want ‘foot soldiers / roundheads’, not ‘cavaliers’ .. A similar situation developed when Billy Davies sold Inigo Idiakez, a player who I don’t believe would have blindly followed Davies’ instructions, so obviously flawed as they were .. Incidentally, the one exception in this present team is Tom Huddlestone (and possibly George Thorne if he recovers his former glory) who plays ‘cavalier’ football, but has a personality that oozes composure, two traits that rarely occur in one player; and his contributions to the game are worth the admission money in themselves .. That was the bit I was answering with my Davies comment , not flair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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