Oldest team in the league

[PodgeyRam]

I was reading through the Experimental 3-6-1 blog (Ellafella posts his stuff on here sometimes and I highly recommend you check out his blog), and saw this post. 

https://experimental361.com/2018/01/01/squad-age-profiles-31-dec-2017/

The gist of it is that Derby have had the oldest average starting 11 in the league this season (29.5 years), closely followed by Burton. In fact we've named the oldest average starting 11 in the entire football league this season.

We are also one of only two teams in the top four divisions to have given over half of our total playing minutes to players over the age of 30. 

We've also given less than an hours playing time to players aged 21 or younger this season. Only Cardiff (who haven't played anyone that age) have done less in the championship.

I just found it interesting given how in the summer Rowett said that he would be looking to bring the age of our squad down and to infuse some youth and energy into our team. Given the players he got rid of in the summer and the ones he bought in, I reckon he's taken us in the opposite direction there. 

 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Id take a guess at with GR we can draw a distinction between tactics and strategy in terms of the summer recruitment and team selections.

I think the summer transfers were made more tactically than strategically, in so far as rowett needed players who could play the way he wants, but the tatical moves for transfers, the best options to get that together, were all on the old side, and team selection is based on pragmatism of what fr thinks is the best team.

The overall strategy could still be towards young hungry value players. But that strategic direction might only become apparent over several windows.

In short, Rowett's been managing on a mostly tatical level to get the immediate direction towards where he wants, with the strategic stuff not yet happening and will happen over a longer time scale.

I could however, be talking complete pish and we only spin the youth line because we have spent loafs on the academy.

[YorkshireRam]

And yet we're in the top 2 which goes against what many would say about this philosophy?

We've now got experience in key areas which maybe we've lacked in years past; Carson, Davies, Ledley and Nugent all provide experience through the spine of the team. Their guile through age has no doubt played a massive part in our success so far this season 

[DerpyDane]

It will be some task for Gary over the next few transfer windows to bring down the age of the squad while maintaining or even improving the quality as well. For now, an ageing squad is working for us but over time the values of these players will decrease meaning it will be difficult to generate money from sales and thus to have the funds to spend on young quality players. Bringing in youth from our own academy would certainly help that process but so far Gary doesn't seem like he wants to take any risks regarding using inexperienced players even though we have lots of talented players roaming around our youth squads. Not trying to slate him or anything as he's doing very well at the moment, but I certainly hope he'll manage to ship out some of the ageing players on high wages that does not feature anymore (Shackell, Bent, Anya etc) and bring in more youth.

[Parsnip]

Ugh - we don't want to be in the top 5 of any stat graphic with Burton, Birmingham & Bolton.

[sunnyhill60]

It is some years now since Nigel Clough started to include Will Hughes as a regular in our first team squad.

Since then Bennet, Hanson, Rawson and Lowe, and a few others, have been touted as ready to step up but none have done so on a regular basis.

Are our various managers to blame or has the Academy been the footballing equivalent of Ratners?

For me one failing under Rowett has been to bring in a loan from a Premier team such as a Lingard or a Bamford.

[G-Ram]

Bringing an 80 yr old chris baird back into the fold doesnt help the ‘average age’ 

For the record i think baird has been class & i don't see the issue but playing a 35yr old & a 25yr old has an average of 30 across the two players 

We have some good experianced pro’s at the club with the likes of ledley & huds. If we start winnall, wisdom & thorne instead of ledley, nugent & baird then the ‘average age’ for the match day squad is lowered 

we also have some good younger players in lawrence & wisdom etc i dont really see the issue & 30 isnt that old in footballing terms any more 

[Animal is a Ram]

Not just the Championship - it's the oldest average of the top 4 leagues in England.

[ilkleyram]

Age - just a number. Especially when you're my age

[Inglorius]

No one's going to question that stat too closely with us 2nd in the league.  If the wheels start to come off then Rowetts strategy will come under intense scrutiny mind you.

[Ninos]

9 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

I was reading through the Experimental 3-6-1 blog (Ellafella posts his stuff on here sometimes and I highly recommend you check out his blog), and saw this post. 

https://experimental361.com/2018/01/01/squad-age-profiles-31-dec-2017/

The gist of it is that Derby have had the oldest average starting 11 in the league this season (29.5 years), closely followed by Burton. In fact we've named the oldest average starting 11 in the entire football league this season.

We are also one of only two teams in the top four divisions to have given over half of our total playing minutes to players over the age of 30. 

We've also given less than an hours playing time to players aged 21 or younger this season. Only Cardiff (who haven't played anyone that age) have done less in the championship.

I just found it interesting given how in the summer Rowett said that he would be looking to bring the age of our squad down and to infuse some youth and energy into our team. Given the players he got rid of in the summer and the ones he bought in, I reckon he's taken us in the opposite direction there. 

 

This is my biggest concern so far, maybe only real concern

It’s not like he’s said : I don’t want young players etc. Quite the contrary. But for whatever reasons his actions have not matched his words: no reason in my view not to be playing Luke Thomas and Timi Elsnik (recall) more for example as we need creative mid/forward players.

So he’s either bluffing about wanting the youth, or he feels they aren’t ready, that games are too important to take risks, or that he is cowering to the older players banging on his office door because they can’t get game time because of the bloated squad. He could also be shop windowing those same older players as value drops as they rot.

Seasons Second half we need to see Thomas Elsnik (recall) and some of the others feature more prominently. That’s the mantra of the club but in terms of getting academy players into our first team, no matter how much you cut it, we suck. It’s also a disincentive for good young players to come to us. If you’re an Oliver Burke are you better off at Derby or Forest regardless of how pretty facilities are ?

When the younger players start to see no access they begin to lose hope and it may not be a coincidence that Zanzala Lowe and some others have dropped off the radar with lesser performances. In a recent U23s game Zanzala was even pushed off the team to make way for a returning Darren Bent who wouldn’t come off later on when we’d planned to bring on the young one. Very frustrating.

[RIMBAUD]

I think GR thought it would be easier to shift some of the older players who were already here than has proved to be the case.  Yesterday showed that we need some energy for this second half of the season.

Weve made a great fist of having nous/experience and it’s taken to higher than many of us would have expected but there will be time when we will need to be vibrant and energetic to beat solid teams.

[RoyMac5]

10 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

In short, Rowett's been managing on a mostly tatical level to get the immediate direction towards where he wants, with the strategic stuff not yet happening and will happen over a longer time scale.

I could however, be talking complete pish and we only spin the youth line because we have spent loads on the academy.

Spin indeed.

Rowett and waiting for the 'strategic stuff' to happen is like the Emperor's New Clothes - I call naked!

[eddie]

12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Spin indeed.

Rowett and waiting for the 'strategic stuff' to happen is like the Emperor's New Clothes - I call naked!

I'm just waiting for you to unearth some gem about no manager in recent years ever managing to get promotion with a name ending with double-t. That's about as relevant as the rest of your tedious criticism of absolutely everything which has anything remotely associated with Rowett.

[RoyMac5]

3 minutes ago, eddie said:

I'm just waiting for you to unearth some gem about no manager in recent years ever managing to get promotion with a name ending with double-t. That's about as relevant as the rest of your tedious criticism of absolutely everything which has anything remotely associated with Rowett.

Is that the best comeback you can manage when the evidence of Rowetts reluctance to implement a Plan B is there to be seen?

[King Kevin]

Some of the best players I've seen at Derby have been so called passed their prime I give you a Mr Dave Mackay, ,Paul Mcgrath etc.

[RamNut]

The age of the team doesn't bother me particularly altho i think Nugent and possibly Baird have dipped in the last couple of appearances perhaps due to longer recovery times.

i would have liked us to build a younger team around hughesy but we wouldn't be second with that policy.

Lawrie mcmenemy and jim smith were not afraid to play a few experienced older players. Its just not something we are used to.

 

[Carl Sagan]

Love the graphics, which are like artworks.

As others have said, we've not been able to shift the older unwanted pros on. Because of that Rowett's not had the opportunity to bring youth through. Also, there were holes in the squad that needed filling. The Kief transfer got screwed up and it was clear Huddlestone and Johnson didn't cut it, so the only player available outside of the window was Ledley. I'm sure no one believes we shouldn't have gone for him.

I was thrilled by the Davis transfer, and central defenders have a longer shelf-life. For me he was a step up on the (very good) Shackell and Pearce so that was fine. Huddlestone was a surprise but has obvious quality on the ball, and I think a demonstration of the pragmatic Rowett. I don't see him as a long-term fixture. Baird is in the twilight of his career and desperate to play, and has done amazingly well to hold off the competition from Wisdom to nail down the right back role for now.

It's harder to give youth a chance when you're near the top of the league with a settled side, but Bennett was on the bench yesterday, Thomas has been there recently and Max Bird played a couple of games earlier in the season. Elsnik, Gordon and Rawson are out on loan, I think because we couldn't shift other players to make room for them.

In the end I'd rather be in second with an older team if that's the shortcut out of this league, than battling to get into the playoffs with a team of youngsters.

 

[Ellafella]

12 hours ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Id take a guess at with GR we can draw a distinction between tactics and strategy in terms of the summer recruitment and team selections.

I think the summer transfers were made more tactically than strategically, in so far as rowett needed players who could play the way he wants, but the tatical moves for transfers, the best options to get that together, were all on the old side, and team selection is based on pragmatism of what fr thinks is the best team.

The overall strategy could still be towards young hungry value players. But that strategic direction might only become apparent over several windows.

In short, Rowett's been managing on a mostly tatical level to get the immediate direction towards where he wants, with the strategic stuff not yet happening and will happen over a longer time scale.

I could however, be talking complete pish and we only spin the youth line because we have spent loafs on the academy.

A very good attempt at making a legitimate rationale. I wonder if GR is aware of this ie a deliberate policy of experience. 

Sheff Utd showed us a clean pair of heals yesterday despite having the same schedule.

I wonder if the age thing will hamper us as we get to Feb/March and the legs start to fill with Lactic acid? 

[Ellafella]

12 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

I was reading through the Experimental 3-6-1 blog (Ellafella posts his stuff on here sometimes and I highly recommend you check out his blog), and saw this post. 

https://experimental361.com/2018/01/01/squad-age-profiles-31-dec-2017/

The gist of it is that Derby have had the oldest average starting 11 in the league this season (29.5 years), closely followed by Burton. In fact we've named the oldest average starting 11 in the entire football league this season.

We are also one of only two teams in the top four divisions to have given over half of our total playing minutes to players over the age of 30. 

We've also given less than an hours playing time to players aged 21 or younger this season. Only Cardiff (who haven't played anyone that age) have done less in the championship.

I just found it interesting given how in the summer Rowett said that he would be looking to bring the age of our squad down and to infuse some youth and energy into our team. Given the players he got rid of in the summer and the ones he bought in, I reckon he's taken us in the opposite direction there. 

 

I wonder what MM makes of this? One of GR's KPIs is to have at least 1 Academy Product in the match day squad. Perhaps GR can get away with it as we sit 2nd? However, medium to longer term we really do need to shift a gear. Otherwise why have an Academy? We also need to stop hiding behind the phrase " they're not ready yet". I well remember Wassall saying "I wouldn't have predicted Wil Hughes would be the one to burst through at 17 from watching him at 16".