TuffLuff Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, duncanjwitham said: But Vydra isn't being played as a striker, he's being played as a creative midfielder. Pretty much the whole reason you set up in a 4231 is to allow the guy in the centre of those 3 to have a free role, get on the ball, dictate the game and so on. The only outfield starters on Saturday to have less touches than Vydra were Nugent and Fonte. And he gave the ball away more than anybody on the pitch and created absolutely nothing as well. So with Vydra there, we're basically falling back into a 442, but it's horribly unbalanced because we've got 2 sitting midfielders (meaning no runners from midfield) and 2 out-and-out attacking wingers (meaning we get over run in midfield as there's no 3rd man in there). This is the nail on the head for our current problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Once Luke Thomas is unleashed into the team our attacking creativity issues will be resolved pronto. I love Will Hughes but Luke is WH with pace AND goalscoring. Just sayin. Vydra is clearly our most effective impact attacking player atm regardless of all the digs at his game - he won’t be the finished article because he is after all a championship player, but Rowett has basically said he is the best 10 in the championship with some development. And Nugent loves playing with him as he loves it with Nugent. Martin plus Vyds just ain’t happening, peeps. Deal with it . In fact you can see it coming - that we have too many strikers - and with the big Jan squad trim, it’s likely that old guard attacking players - martin Weimann Anya and even Russell will moved on. GR is clearly a johnson fan and has used superlatives to describe what he does so he ain’t going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffLuff Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ninos said: Once Luke Thomas is unleashed into the team our attacking creativity issues will be resolved pronto. I love Will Hughes but Luke is WH with pace AND goalscoring. Just sayin. Vydra is clearly our most effective impact attacking player atm regardless of all the digs at his game - he won’t be the finished article because he is after all a championship player, but Rowett has basically said he is the best 10 in the championship with some development. And Nugent loves playing with him as he loves it with Nugent. Martin plus Vyds just ain’t happening, peeps. Deal with it . In fact you can see it coming - that we have too many strikers - and with the big Jan squad trim, it’s likely that old guard attacking players - martin Weimann Anya and even Russell will moved on. GR is clearly a johnson fan and has used superlatives to describe what he does so he ain’t going anywhere. What’s Chris Martin got to do with anything being discussed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Ninos said: Once Luke Thomas is unleashed into the team our attacking creativity issues will be resolved pronto. I love Will Hughes but Luke is WH with pace AND goalscoring. Just sayin. Vydra is clearly our most effective impact attacking player atm regardless of all the digs at his game - he won’t be the finished article because he is after all a championship player, but Rowett has basically said he is the best 10 in the championship with some development. And Nugent loves playing with him as he loves it with Nugent. Martin plus Vyds just ain’t happening, peeps. Deal with it . In fact you can see it coming - that we have too many strikers - and with the big Jan squad trim, it’s likely that old guard attacking players - martin Weimann Anya and even Russell will moved on. GR is clearly a johnson fan and has used superlatives to describe what he does so he ain’t going anywhere. If anything shows the mismanagement of our club over the last several years it's that the likes of Will Hughes and Jeff Hendrick have been moved on before Bradley Johnson and Jacob Butterfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Ninos,you are another obsessed with martin....noone else has mentioned him again! However,going with it ,martin with vydra would obviously be the dream team in my opinion....those two working off each other would be fantastic but GR clearly wants rid of our old flair players so I could see Martin,Russell and Anya going too...he's freezing them out on purpose,together with thorne. Just imagine just how boring we will be without them come feb...it's bad enough as it is,Jesus. The under 23's pretending to be boring in order to get into the squad are our only hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 49 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: If anything shows the mismanagement of our club over the last several years it's that the likes of Will Hughes and Jeff Hendrick have been moved on before Bradley Johnson and Jacob Butterfield. can't sell what isn't in demand, BJ's played well this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyhill60 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 11 minutes ago, Spanish said: can't sell what isn't in demand, BJ's played well this year Rarely in my view. When played alongside Huddleston he has not been effective and in a more forward position it is a mixed picture. Last Saturday he was dire, giving the ball away more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Ninos,you are another obsessed with martin....noone else has mentioned him again! However,going with it ,martin with vydra would obviously be the dream team in my opinion....those two working off each other would be fantastic but GR clearly wants rid of our old flair players so I could see Martin,Russell and Anya going too...he's freezing them out on purpose,together with thorne. Just imagine just how boring we will be without them come feb...it's bad enough as it is,Jesus. The under 23's pretending to be boring in order to get into the squad are our only hope... Yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, archied said: Yawn Very constructive.....I presume a sniff of Martin being mentioned sucked you into this one. Anything to actually add to the conversation? At least ninos has an arguement to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OohMartWright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I don't have any axe to grind either for or against Chris Martin and I have to say that I am surprised we haven't seen a Vydra/Martin pairing. I believe that Vydra/Nugent is our best pairing, particularly at home, but when Nugent tires can he not be replaced by Martin and still leave Vydra on the field with him for a while to see how they fare together? It almost seems as if GR sees the two alternative pairings of Vydra/Nugent and Martin/Winnall as inseparable couples. The idea of Martin coming on as a super-sub and linking with Lawrence, Vydra and either Russell or Luke Thomas against tired defenders is very appealing, at least to me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, OohMartWright said: I don't have any axe to grind either for or against Chris Martin and I have to say that I am surprised we haven't seen a Vydra/Martin pairing. I believe that Vydra/Nugent is our best pairing, particularly at home, but when Nugent tires can he not be replaced by Martin and still leave Vydra on the field with him for a while to see how they fare together? It almost seems as if GR sees the two alternative pairings of Vydra/Nugent and Martin/Winnall as inseparable couples. The idea of Martin coming on as a super-sub and linking with Lawrence, Vydra and either Russell or Luke Thomas against tired defenders is very appealing, at least to me anyway. Could be that he believes martin and vydra are the two least effective of the strikers in terms of closing down and defending from the front so doesn't see them as a pair ,also listening to rowett I think he sees vydra and martin playing the same position ( number 10 ) all be it that they play the role in different ways to each other , my guess is that's rowett view ,, that said I would quite like to see them started together with martin in the ten role and vyds more buzzing round and on the shoulder of defenders just to see if it worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 27 minutes ago, OohMartWright said: I don't have any axe to grind either for or against Chris Martin and I have to say that I am surprised we haven't seen a Vydra/Martin pairing. I believe that Vydra/Nugent is our best pairing, particularly at home, but when Nugent tires can he not be replaced by Martin and still leave Vydra on the field with him for a while to see how they fare together? It almost seems as if GR sees the two alternative pairings of Vydra/Nugent and Martin/Winnall as inseparable couples. The idea of Martin coming on as a super-sub and linking with Lawrence, Vydra and either Russell or Luke Thomas against tired defenders is very appealing, at least to me anyway. It's because Martin is very poor at getting balls hoofed behind the backline, which seems to be Rowetts main strategy of attack. Rather than address the huge gap between our midfield and forwards (which limits any build-up we can muster), he seems more content with the 'Leicester strategy' of launching 50 yards for Nugent (Vardy) to chase. It's obviously why we were linked with the likes of Jerome in the summer, just big athletic strikers with no technical ability just physicality. Sadly it seems a plan rather than the by product of our defensive strategy and even sadder is I think we won't really see Martin as a result. Personally I think Martin and Vydra could be an excellent duo. I'm still amazed we haven't seen it, especially after how good Vydra was with a technical targetman like Deeney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, lrm14 said: Personally I think Martin and Vydra could be an excellent duo. I'm still amazed we haven't seen it, especially after how good Vydra was with a technical targetman like Deeney. do you think they try this in training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm14 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Spanish said: do you think they try this in training? Maybe but I think Nugent is undroppable for Rowett due to his pressing. I think that's the main reason we've not seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamLad1884 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Personally I'd like to see a lawrence/vydra pairing. Johnson and Russell on the the 2 wide spots. If GR likes players who close down then those 4 will chase and close down players all day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDerby Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, RamLad1884 said: Personally I'd like to see a lawrence/vydra pairing. Johnson and Russell on the the 2 wide spots. If GR likes players who close down then those 4 will chase and close down players all day Lawrence is 100% a wide player, be more sense to play Weimann if you're looking for players to run all day..basically leaves us with half of football brain between Johnson, Russell, Weimann and Vydra. it's not gonna work Personally think you need a clever player in there.. like Martin, Nugent.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 7 hours ago, duncanjwitham said: But Vydra isn't being played as a striker, he's being played as a creative midfielder. Pretty much the whole reason you set up in a 4231 is to allow the guy in the centre of those 3 to have a free role, get on the ball, dictate the game and so on. The only outfield starters on Saturday to have less touches than Vydra were Nugent and Fonte. And he gave the ball away more than anybody on the pitch and created absolutely nothing as well. So with Vydra there, we're basically falling back into a 442, but it's horribly unbalanced because we've got 2 sitting midfielders (meaning no runners from midfield) and 2 out-and-out attacking wingers (meaning we get over run in midfield as there's no 3rd man in there). Hm this is an interesting one. Not sure vydra is being played as a creative midfielder in its entirety, he is playing a free role but I don’t think it’s fair to ever expect a number 10 to dictate the game, it’s an extremely difficult crowded area to play in, hence why they often have less touches on the ball- I would be expecting Huddlestone to be the one controlling the game. That’s more where our problem lies imo, Huddlestone needs to get on the ball and run the game from his more open role, vydras role also involves quick link up with the striker and running in behind, its not really a traditional midfield role, more like a CF. I do however agree on the point he needs to get on the ball more, not sure where you got your stats from but he actually had the least touches on the field from what I can see, however his pass success rate was 85% which I’d say is pretty damn good for a guy in that role. Think that highlights his need to come deeper to receive the ball, but I wonder if that’s potentially tactical, I noticed Martin didn’t really do it enough either, and he’s normally one to do exactly that. In any case it’s hard to get on the ball when it’s fired straight over you to the opposition goalie so I let them both off. Its a difficult one, but I think that while the issues you highlight are undoubtedly evident, I feel this is more a tactical issue than a player one. Think if we resolve the issue in midfield, the attack will become a much more fluid unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Ninos said: Once Luke Thomas is unleashed into the team our attacking creativity issues will be resolved pronto. I love Will Hughes but Luke is WH with pace AND goalscoring. At Garys rate of promoting youth I'll be in the cold, cold ground before I see this bright new Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 goals so far...when was the last time a derby player scored this many so soon in a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKRam Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: 9 goals so far...when was the last time a derby player scored this many so soon in a season? Been mentioned he’s not always in the game but as a striker would we care if he kept up this strike rate? Go get em Matej Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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