Chris Martin

[Millenniumram]

4 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Just out of interest, can any Martin detractors actually give me a response as to why he didn’t start on Saturday? Like a proper relevant response to why Nugent and Winnall made sense over him? Not ‘he’s an impact player’ nothing about him not being a 20 goal a year striker, but how we didn’t miss a hold up player who actually keeps his position? 

I mean you’ve had nearly two days and I’ve yet to see a decent response. 

I’m fairness we needed to set up to press, Martin wouldn’t really have helped with that. He would however have helped with a bit of control with someone with more pace In behind doing the pressing. Him or Nugent is much of a muchness, Nugent was fine on Saturday so Martin would have made no difference, Winnall was the problem. Was never gonna work having him do the pressing role because he doesn’t have the energy and left a gap in the attacking mid position. Playing Martin and Nugent together would have had the same problem. If vydra wasn’t fit it should have been Lawrence behind Martin or Nugent.

[TuffLuff]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

It's a very bad thing if you are relying on your number 10 to shore up defensive frailties.

It’s not shoring up frailties, it’s working as a balanced unit. Each role should have an attacking and defensive role. As it stands we have a midfield two that need to cover a hell of a lot of ground, it’s settled down a bit with Ledley but there are still times we have rode our luck doing it. The classic case to me is Vydra, in theory against forest and Wednesday he set up or scored the goals. Shouldn’t he have got MOTM comfortably? Don’t you think the fact he didn’t shows that he might not be contributing enough in open play?

[TuffLuff]

16 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

I’m fairness we needed to set up to press, Martin wouldn’t really have helped with that. He would however have helped with a bit of control with someone with more pace In behind doing the pressing. Him or Nugent is much of a muchness, Nugent was fine on Saturday so Martin would have made no difference, Winnall was the problem. Was never gonna work having him do the pressing role because he doesn’t have the energy and left a gap in the attacking mid position. Playing Martin and Nugent together would have had the same problem. If vydra wasn’t fit it should have been Lawrence behind Martin or Nugent.

I do agree but not 100% sure about Nugent’s contribution on saturday. He had endeavour but he was still half a yard off position wise to me. Say if Sammon or Villa had put in that shift like that back in the day then I would expect a few fans would have been up in arms on here. Like the idea of lawrence in behind, personally really want to see Johnson there but I may be in a small minority!

[PodgeyRam]

33 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

In no way is Nugent a poacher, he’s a hold up man. That being said that pairing was never going to work with such a slow midfield, especially set up as a 442 leaving a massive gap between midfield and attack.

Nugent has never been and never will be a hold-up man. He's a classic charge down the defenders, pounce on a mistake type player, which is very similar to Winnall how Winnall has been playing for us.

[Millenniumram]

3 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

Nugent has never been and never will be a hold-up man. He's a classic charge down the defenders, pounce on a mistake type player, which is very similar to Winnall how Winnall has been playing for us.

Have to agree to disagree there then, Nugent has good control of a football and links up play well. Not quite the same as Martin who’s more stationary and moves play around him, rather than moving with the play if that makes sense- arguably martins role is harder. Despite that they’re too similar to play together imo. Winnall is more of a classic Darren bent style poacher like you describe, which is pretty much exactly what he was brought in to do given bents injury.

[Millenniumram]

13 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

I do agree but not 100% sure about Nugent’s contribution on saturday. He had endeavour but he was still half a yard off position wise to me. Say if Sammon or Villa had put in that shift like that back in the day then I would expect a few fans would have been up in arms on here. Like the idea of lawrence in behind, personally really want to see Johnson there but I may be in a small minority!

Hm I thought he worked as hard as he could tbh, looked like our only real attacking threat until he tired, tho I wholeheartedly agree his position was off, couldn’t understand why he was playing as the deeper of the two. Quite like Johnson in the attacking positions but think it makes our midfield too slow with him in cam, doesn’t bomb on enough for me. Much better in the LW position coming inside imo.

[PodgeyRam]

8 minutes ago, Millenniumram said:

Have to agree to disagree there then, Nugent has good control of a football and links up play well. Not quite the same as Martin who’s more stationary and moves play around him, rather than moving with the play if that makes sense- arguably martins role is harder. Despite that they’re too similar to play together imo. Winnall is more of a classic Darren bent style poacher like you describe, which is pretty much exactly what he was brought in to do given bents injury.

I just don't think his link up play is good enough to justify that tag. He's looked at his best when we press high and when he runs onto through balls on the 18 yard box. There's nothing wrong with that and it's served him well. I think that's part of the reason we were so poor against Reading - him and Winnall were trying to do the same thing. We looked much better with Martin on, who can play that deeper role better.

[EnigmaRam]

3 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

Hm I thought he worked as hard as he could tbh, looked like our only real attacking threat until he tired, tho I wholeheartedly agree his position was off, couldn’t understand why he was playing as the deeper of the two. Quite like Johnson in the attacking positions but think it makes our midfield too slow with him in cam, doesn’t bomb on enough for me. Much better in the LW position coming inside imo.

Nugent was one of the biggest problems on Saturday. He kept taking up winnalls space and leaving a gap,behind him. He's great as the 9 but sucked at the 10.

[jono]

3 hours ago, PodgeyRam said:

I just don't think his link up play is good enough to justify that tag. He's looked at his best when we press high and when he runs onto through balls on the 18 yard box. There's nothing wrong with that and it's served him well. I think that's part of the reason we were so poor against Reading - him and Winnall were trying to do the same thing. We looked much better with Martin on, who can play that deeper role better.

Martin's link play is without doubt the best we have. He gives incredible control to a game high up the field and can unlock things in the box that others simply can't but Nugent offers a different set of skills. He frightens defences and can make an opportunity out of nothing.

everything depends on what they are playing against and the tempo of game. It is pointless and devisive to say one should start and one shouldn't. The key is WHEN to deploy either of them. Together, alone or with another partner .... Over to you Gary but Saturday you got it either wrong or too little too late. But I reckon he has learned from it. 

[Comrade 86]

5 hours ago, Millenniumram said:

In no way is Nugent a poacher, he’s a hold up man. 

Oh dear!

[Anag Ram]

5 minutes ago, jono said:

Martin's link play is without doubt the best we have. He gives incredible control to a game high up the field and can unlock things in the box that others simply can't but Nugent offers a different set of skills. He frightens defences and can make an opportunity out of nothing.

everything depends on what they are playing against and the tempo of game. It is pointless and devisive to say one should start and one shouldn't. The key is WHEN to deploy either of them. Together, alone or with another partner .... Over to you Gary but Saturday you got it either wrong or too little too late. But I reckon he has learned from it. 

I think with the four forwards we have, the only combination which doesn’t really work is Nugent -Winnall. They are both up and at ‘em forwards - too similar. Martin could work with all of them as provider. Vydra could work off the others, utilising the space they give him.

However, it was poor attitude and a lack of organisation which cost us on Saturday, not our forward partnership.

[Comrade 86]

On 11/4/2017 at 20:35, Leicester Ram said:

@Ninos you've happily spent the past month calling Rowett a tactical genius and harping on about Nugent/Vydra/Winnall, but today's really showed that we can't just plug in two of our pacey attackers and have success. The flaws in Rowett's system was exposed today. Results have been good but Rowett himself has admitted that the performances in our two home wins were far from perfect.

The fact you maintain that Martin is 'a largely irrelevant impact player' when he played the full 90 minutes in one of our best performances of the season just this week and the much heralded Vydra was hauled off at half-time for Martin in another one of our best performances of the season just last week completely undermines any credibility your opinion has.

Your opinion is so obviously biased and ignorant of so many facts and factors that I don't think anyone who's read this forum for the past 18 months can actually take anything you say seriously.

Great post @Leicester Ram but the reference to @Ninos's credibility has me a tad confused .

That said, you recovered nicely with that last paragraph 

[Leicester Ram]

1 minute ago, 86 points said:

Great post @Leicester Ram but the reference to @Ninos's credibility has me a tad confused .

That said, you recovered nicely with that last paragraph 

I still make more sense than him 

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I still make more sense than him 

toddy makes more sense than him!

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

toddy makes more sense than him!

And this guy makes more sense than either #nosenseatall ?

[Comrade 86]

9 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said:

I still make more sense than him 

In spades brother - was just jesting with you in that you used 'ninos' and 'credibility' in the same sentence 

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

toddy makes more sense than him!

That might be pushing it, but to be fair to Toddy, he was right about the Martin move to Fulham, I mean Wolves... Ah, **** it, you're right, I give up 

[Millenniumram]

1 hour ago, EnigmaRam said:

Nugent was one of the biggest problems on Saturday. He kept taking up winnalls space and leaving a gap,behind him. He's great as the 9 but sucked at the 10.

Oh yeah I don’t doubt your last sentence at all, any of the good work I was on about was when he advanced to the nine role, really can’t understand why he was placed in the number 10 role. Think it was the tactical setup that saw them take up each other’s space, was a very poor tactic by rowett to basically play them next to each other, like you say neither really knew their Job and took up each other’s space. Harsh to say he was one of the biggest problems tho, thought Winnall was very petulant and contributed almost nothing, tho as I say the tactical setup didn’t help that, and the midfield as well was a far greater issue as well as Forsyth’s complete inability to play football.

[jono]

47 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

I think with the four forwards we have, the only combination which doesn’t really work is Nugent -Winnall. They are both up and at ‘em forwards - too similar. Martin could work with all of them as provider. Vydra could work off the others, utilising the space they give him.

However, it was poor attitude and a lack of organisation which cost us on Saturday, not our forward partnership.

I'd add that Reading hit us hard for the 10 minutes. Stopped us playing by keeping the ball very well. Knocked the stuffing out of us. Keogh went and the remaining attitude was (as you say) just not sufficient 

[Leicester Ram]

All four of them are very good strikers at this level and over the season I think we'll see lots of combinations of the four, much to our advantage. We've got nowhere near the attacking threat we had at the peak of the McClaren 4-3-3 but massively to Rowett's credit I think we've got far more ways to attack a team.

There'll be certain combinations I'll prefer but there's more than one way to skin a cat and I won't be writing off any of our strikers anytime soon.

[cannable]

I can’t help but laugh when I think back to some people stating that Nugent at #10 was the final straw.

I can see the idea behind it. At Leicester he would drop off into the pockets behind Vardy.

I think the difference may well be that with them it was a natural dropping-off whereas with us it’s a designated role.