Chris Martin

[Leicester Ram]

3 hours ago, toddy said:

Martinites on here continually use the term Martin is a 20 goal a season striker, when in fact he has managed it twice in 5 seasons for us. He now has 1 in 31 appearances which by any strikers standards is extremely poor.

This is hilarious and confusing, where exactly are you getting 5 season from here?

Are you counting 12/13 when he came in on loan for a few games at the end of the season? Was he meant to score 20 goals in a handful (13, I checked) of appearances?

Are you counting 16/17, where he played about 5 games for us, the majority of which were sub appearances? Was he meant to score 4 goals a game then, is that what a good striker would have done?

Because if you're ACTUALLY paying attention to whether Martin is a 20 goal a season striker for us, he's played 3 full seasons and scored over 20 goals in two of those seasons. In the one season he didn't, he was still top goalscorer in a team that made the play-off's.

This whole argument seems even more redundant when you take into account that Vydra and Nugent have both only ever scored 20 goals a season ONCE. And Martin is the most recent to score 20 goals in one season out of the three of them! 

[DRBee]

3 hours ago, toddy said:

Martinites on here continually use the term Martin is a 20 goal a season striker, when in fact he has managed it twice in 5 seasons for us. He now has 1 in 31 appearances which by any strikers standards is extremely poor.

You completely ignore the point .

How many minutes on the pitch in those 31 appearances?

[lrm14]

5 minutes ago, DRBee said:

You completely ignore the point .

How many minutes on the pitch in those 31 appearances?

Toddy ignoring the point to facilitate his anti-Martin narrative? 

That is unusual.

[Mistaram]

6 hours ago, VulcanRam said:

It also never ceases to amaze me that some people have no comprehension whatsoever how hard it is to play at this elite level, at this speed, with a million decisions to make every minute. Millions of people play football, a comparative handful make it as far as Championship level. You've got to be something very special physically and mentally to make it this far. Yet people talk about playing football at the second highest level in the country as if it's getting out of bed.

Vulcan save your breath they are just to thick to understand Most of them would have trouble to run a bath 

[DEL]

5 hours ago, toddy said:

Martinites on here continually use the term Martin is a 20 goal a season striker, when in fact he has managed it twice in 5 seasons for us. He now has 1 in 31 appearances which by any strikers standards is extremely poor.

Why on earth you put 1 in 31 on your profile? 

Jien dizappuntat inti. 

[bigbadbob]

1 hour ago, DEL said:

Why on earth you put 1 in 31 on your profile? 

Jien dizappuntat inti. 

He hasn't has he?

Oh he has. 

[rynny]

4 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

This is hilarious and confusing, where exactly are you getting 5 season from here?

Are you counting 12/13 when he came in on loan for a few games at the end of the season? Was he meant to score 20 goals in a handful (13, I checked) of appearances?

Are you counting 16/17, where he played about 5 games for us, the majority of which were sub appearances? Was he meant to score 4 goals a game then, is that what a good striker would have done?

Because if you're ACTUALLY paying attention to whether Martin is a 20 goal a season striker for us, he's played 3 full seasons and scored over 20 goals in two of those seasons. In the one season he didn't, he was still top goalscorer in a team that made the play-off's.

This whole argument seems even more redundant when you take into account that Vydra and Nugent have both only ever scored 20 goals a season ONCE. And Martin is the most recent to score 20 goals in one season out of the three of them! 

Toddy has got it slightly wrong, it should be 2 in 6 seasons. He hasn't scored 20 in 17/18 season...

[archied]

Round and round in circles ,,,,, martin is a good player struggling for goals / form ,,,,starter just now?? My guess is he is not seen as a starter just now because we don't have enough energy and legs in midfield and are looking to supplement that with high tempo closing down from the front players and though martins  much improved attitude to that area of his game is to be commended it's not his strongest point hence the fact that I think rowett sees him starting more away games than home where we will perhaps set up to play deeper and for me I think vydra is the best partner for him 

all that said ,it's very sad to see some overly slate him because he is a decent player and has been a credit to Derby county I'm pretty sure that a lot of this is fuelled by some having an overly positive view to the current martin in this current incarnation of Derby team 

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, archied said:

Round and round in circles ,,,,, martin is a good player struggling for goals / form ,,,,starter just now?? My guess is he is not seen as a starter just now because we don't have enough energy and legs in midfield and are looking to supplement that with high tempo closing down from the front players and though martins  much improved attitude to that area of his game is to be commended it's not his strongest point hence the fact that I think rowett sees him starting more away games than home where we will perhaps set up to play deeper and for me I think vydra is the best partner for him 

all that said ,it's very sad to see some overly slate him because he is a decent player and has been a credit to Derby county I'm pretty sure that a lot of this is fuelled by some having an overly positive view to the current martin in this current incarnation of Derby team 

Personally I think it’s a shame that every thread about him gets derailed into the same old debates. Look at this one, starts off quite nicely about saying well done to him, moved into a debate about whether it was harsh not to start him but then gets squashed by the same group of people bringing largely irrelevant arguments because they can’t debate the topic unless they set the agenda of it. It’s not to say they may/may not have a point overall but most of the time it’s not appropriate. Also as I’ve said before it’s difficult to ignore because when other people are reading this, so debunkable points need debunking. And thus all debate is ruined

Ps, Martin should have started on Saturday...

[cheron85]

14 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

This whole argument seems even more redundant when you take into account that Vydra and Nugent have both only ever scored 20 goals a season ONCE. And Martin is the most recent to score 20 goals in one season out of the three of them! 

Also Winnall has done it twice is his career and Martin had a 20+ goal season for Norwich too

[toddy]

20 hours ago, Leicester Ram said:

This is hilarious and confusing, where exactly are you getting 5 season from here?

Are you counting 12/13 when he came in on loan for a few games at the end of the season? Was he meant to score 20 goals in a handful (13, I checked) of appearances?

Are you counting 16/17, where he played about 5 games for us, the majority of which were sub appearances? Was he meant to score 4 goals a game then, is that what a good striker would have done?

Because if you're ACTUALLY paying attention to whether Martin is a 20 goal a season striker for us, he's played 3 full seasons and scored over 20 goals in two of those seasons. In the one season he didn't, he was still top goalscorer in a team that made the play-off's.

This whole argument seems even more redundant when you take into account that Vydra and Nugent have both only ever scored 20 goals a season ONCE. And Martin is the most recent to score 20 goals in one season out of the three of them! 

Ok lets get this right - for a 20 goal season striker

2013/14 - 25

2014/15 -21

2015/16 -15

2016/17- 11 [or Fulham]

2017/18 -1 so far [I dont think he will hit double figures this season let alone 20+] and this is his 5th season!

or and your point of partial season that was 2012/13 where he hit 3 in 13.

 

 

 

 

[jimbobram]

16 minutes ago, toddy said:

Ok lets get this right - for a 20 goal season striker

2013/14 - 25

2014/15 -21

2015/16 -15

2016/17- 11 [or Fulham]

2017/18 -1 so far [I dont think he will hit double figures this season let alone 20+] and this is his 5th season!

or and your point of partial season that was 2012/13 where he hit 3 in 13.

 

 

 

 

Give up Toddy mate. You make a bad point

[TuffLuff]

25 minutes ago, toddy said:

Ok lets get this right - for a 20 goal season striker

2013/14 - 25

2014/15 -21

2015/16 -15

2016/17- 11 [or Fulham]

2017/18 -1 so far [I dont think he will hit double figures this season let alone 20+] and this is his 5th season!

or and your point of partial season that was 2012/13 where he hit 3 in 13.

 

 

 

 

I think you proved my point within the space of two posts. On ya toddy!

[archied]

6 minutes ago, jimbobram said:

Give up Toddy mate. You make a bad point

It's a bit like the managers debate we have ,, Pearson got Leicester promoted ,,, don't mean he will do it at Derby , Mac was crap at a few clubs but did well at Derby , moyes was capable of keeping Everton competitive in the prem but went down with Sunderland ,,,

the point is it's in the past with different circumstances and different players and staff around them ,,

we know that under the right circumstance s martin has scored 20 plus goals a season,that's great and deserves respect and has earnt the affection of a lot of Derby fans ( rightly so) but the point is ,is he the right player to start in our team now with the players and tactics now ??? 

Debate away ,,,, 

slagging him off or overly praising him ,, knit picking over number of  goals scored in past is just a load of old b******* and seems more about which posters can piss the highest in terms of researching stats and get one over on each other rather than talking football?

[VulcanRam]

23 hours ago, 86 points said:

Deleted. Vulcan I've deleted my original response because I think I may have misunderstood your reply. In essence I think you are saying that no Championship player arrives there with 'a complete inability to play football' as stated by one in-house expert. Is that right? My initial response was taking your point a rather different way!

 

Yes mate. What I'm saying is that people are so quick to criticise on the apparent basis that they think that playing professional football at this elite level is somehow akin to playing football in the park with your mates, and judge it as such. I would challenge anyone to try playing the game at the speed and intensity Championship players have to then come back on here and say even half the things they do.

There's a reason why thousands of decent players don't even make it to professional level. Therefore those that do, and particularly if you get has high as our players do, have outstanding ability.

[lrm14]

58 minutes ago, toddy said:

Ok lets get this right - for a 20 goal season striker

2013/14 - 25

2014/15 -21

2015/16 -15

2016/17- 11 [or Fulham]

2017/18 -1 so far [I dont think he will hit double figures this season let alone 20+] and this is his 5th season!

or and your point of partial season that was 2012/13 where he hit 3 in 13.

You do realise that if he had hit 20+ goals 5 seasons in a row he wouldn't be here?  That sort of return gets premier league clubs sniffing around you. In fact, can you name any strikers that have banged in 20+ goals for 5 seasons consecutively? And if you can, how many of those haven't transferred either up a division or upgraded in terms of club?

You're also ignoring the fact that from 13 - 16 he was close to the top of the assist charts, so his goal tally doesn't do his actual goal contribution justice.

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

Yes mate. What I'm saying is that people are so quick to criticise on the apparent basis that they think that playing professional football at this elite level is somehow akin to playing football in the park with your mates, and judge it as such. I would challenge anyone to try playing the game at the speed and intensity Championship players have to then come back on here and say even half the things they do.

There's a reason why thousands of decent players don't even make it to professional level. Therefore those that do, and particularly if you get has high as our players do, have outstanding ability.

As I thought. Couldn't agree more bud. Everyone's a critic, huh!

[Grantona]

On 11/5/2017 at 19:17, europia said:

Yes that probably funded the Andre Gray deal (if I recall correctly), however it was Gray who made the difference in that successful season. That was my point really. 

Burnley decided to go for Gray after Jelle Vossen's wife got homesick - Vossen was only there the first three games so Burnley needed another good striker.

Bristol City had been in pole position to sign Gray but dithered too much about wages and Burnley stepped in to steal him from under the Robins' noses. Cotterill was furious and ended up getting sacked even though they signed Kojida instead of Gray.

Gray's goals certainly helped but the player that made the real difference that season was the inspirational Joey Barton - probably Dyche's most important signing in his 5 years at the club. 38 games and Barton only on losing side 3 times.

 

 

 

[archied]

4 hours ago, Grantona said:

Burnley decided to go for Gray after Jelle Vossen's wife got homesick - Vossen was only there the first three games so Burnley needed another good striker.

Bristol City had been in pole position to sign Gray but dithered too much about wages and Burnley stepped in to steal him from under the Robins' noses. Cotterill was furious and ended up getting sacked even though they signed Kojida instead of Gray.

Gray's goals certainly helped but the player that made the real difference that season was the inspirational Joey Barton - probably Dyche's most important signing in his 5 years at the club. 38 games and Barton only on losing side 3 times.

 

 

 

You've come to the wrong place to make a statement like that , no nonsense hard working players are frowned on here ,,, twinkle toes and a sprinkling of magic dust only please?

[cheron85]

22 minutes ago, archied said:

You've come to the wrong place to make a statement like that , no nonsense hard working players are frowned on here ,,, twinkle toes and a sprinkling of magic dust only please?

Not seen an awful lot of criticism of Joe Ledley on here...