Brentford V Derby County

[sage]

2 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I'm still not convinced, I think there something there with Vydra but I will agree to disagree for now.

It's bloody depressing but I agree with the rest. What's really annoying is that we have quite a few good players and a number of decent players but it's completely undermined because Rowett has done such a hatchet job with the midfield. 

I'm not saying he hasn't got ability but it's not as a number 10 in a 4231. He is a second striker. 

At some point he has to play Martin there. That is our best option if we insist on 4231. 

[Sparkle]

Well I didn't either go to the game or listen so getting an away point is very acceptable 

disappointing aspect is that Brentford have sold a lot of players who we would consider decent and were missing several who I would consider decent tonight also stats can easily be misleading but we are surrendering possession to an alarming degree

[Duracell]

22 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Whilst your very much right. I don't like blaming a forward losing the ball for us not drawing a game where we could only muster 20% possession and 3 shots total. It's like playing russian roulette and being surprised when somebody gets shot.

It's like playing russian roulette when you don't need to.

Don't play strikers in a position that's too deep for them. They'll lose the ball.

[sage]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I agree. I agreed when you first said it. 

I just can't think of a system or mix of players that has shown any more promise.

Rowett didn't have a good window. Chose to strengthen the back when creativity was an issue even before he sold key creative players. 

Just think his hands are tied. Think he did some extra tangling himself.

What can he do now?

His midfield is so slow and heavy. Doesn't he need Vydra there just for the mobility and aggression/positive play? 

It is so bad it is hard to think of a solution. 

Maybe 442 with Johnson tucking in from the left and Lawrence hugging the right touchline.

Play Vydra off Martin.

Not great but you could see a pattern of play emerging. 

[The Arch Deacon]

1 minute ago, sage said:

I think that makes the consequences of any errors different but doesn't change his skill set.

We have an awful squad.

Even our good players are now demoralised, dropped, or out on loan. 

I would take getting 4 points off Forest and 12th place now. 

Here....here!! The truth is, the only thing that will keep Rowett in his post beyond October is this apparent re-alignment of expectations of both the fans and the owner. Previously, under Clement and Mac II, there was a genuine optimism In top 2 finish or failing that play-offs! Now, it seems mid table, avoid relegation, and don't get dicked by the Florists and I suspect GR will get an open top bus tour of the City. Such is current level of belief in this club. Even Ninos is defending this utter garbage! If tonight's performance, on the back of recent showings, was with either of the previously mentioned managers, featuring any one of Butterfield, Olson, Martin, Russel etc.... he would be wishing for their deaths in a freak boating accident!!! Breathtaking hypocricy! 

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, sage said:

I'm not saying he hasn't got ability but it's not as a number 10 in a 4231. He is a second striker. 

At some point he has to play Martin there. That is our best option if we insist on 4231. 

That's kinda what I am saying when I say play him there with Martin up top because that allows him to play as that second striker bursting beyond Martin because Martin will look to drop into that #10 space. Then off the ball you have Vydra harrying the opposition midfield and pressing.

I see your point about putting Martin there my worry would be (not unlike playing Johnson there) that gives you 0 mobility in the centre of the park.

[G STAR RAM]

10 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

i think you're right as he gave him some grief on RD after the match too. Maybe Gary shouldn't have brought him on for a midfielder when it seemed clear to everyone we were getting battered. Again.

Oh Gary. 

Makes me get nostalgic about the days of Wassall.

Can you explain what grief GR gave him?

On the interview I heard he just said something about Vydra going into the dressing room and apologising to his team mates.

[needles]

Come January....

 

Carson

Wisdom Keogh *one of the other centre halves, whichever, all much the same* Forsyth

Thorne

Bryson (recalled) *a midfield runner or Hughes on loan*

Lawrence Martin Russell

 

 

Set up in an innovative 433 shape, playing a high tempo pressing game in a  cavalier style getting men ahead of the ball and playing through Martin on the deck with runners beyond and around him a focal point and George Thorne pulling the strings from deep.

It's so crazy it might just work. 

[brady1993]

2 minutes ago, Duracell said:

It's like playing russian roulette when you don't need to.

Don't play strikers in a position that's too deep for them. They'll lose the ball.

Particularly when you're clinging for dear life in the closing stages of a game.

[brady1993]

1 minute ago, needles said:

Come January....

 

Carson

Wisdom Keogh *one of the other centre halves, whichever, all much the same* Forsyth

Thorne

Bryson (recalled) *a midfield runner or Hughes on loan*

Lawrence Martin Russell

 

 

Set up in an innovative 433 shape, playing a high temp pressing game in a  cavalier style getting men ahead of the ball and playing through Martin on the deck with runners beyond and around him a focal point and George Thorne pulling the strings from deep.

It's so crazy it might just work. 

So close, yet so far

[r_wilcockson]

1 minute ago, brady1993 said:

Particularly when you're clinging for dear life in the closing stages of a game.

By closing stages, you mean the last 75 minutes? 

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

It is so bad it is hard to think of a solution. 

Maybe 442 with Johnson tucking in from the left and Lawrence hugging the right touchline.

Play Vydra off Martin.

Not great but you could see a pattern of play emerging. 

To be honest I'd rather just ditch Johnson entirely and bring Anya back into the fold.

[RamNut]

                       Carson.  Mitchell

baird.     Keogh.   Davies.   Shackell.  Forsyth

.      Wisdom.     Ledley.   Johnson 

.                    Huddlestone

 

I can see where Gary is going. ❤️ Clever.

[NottsRam77]

1 hour ago, DerbyRevolution said:

Mels finger will be twitching tonight 

Forest tickets not selling and at £38 a pop why would they? 

Lose at Cardiff and Saturday evening/Sunday lunch the news will break 

Rightly or wrongly who knows. We're going nowhere like this but are now in a vicious cycle where doing nothing may be more damaging 

No idea if Gary will be at Moor Farm Monday morning 

Oh how we've fallen 

One of the most melodramatic posts iv  read for sometime

weve just taken a point from a team who usually do nothing but beat us

yes by all accounts it was dire, as was what i sat through on saturday,

as a season ticket holder and a SUPPORTER of derby county i realise that change takes time, last season to a man we knew this squad needed changing up.

oh and we cant bring players in til weve got rid of some of the crap thats overpaid, on long contracts that no one shockingly wants

this was always going to be a disjointed and at times crap season, but guess what, im a derby fan and im in it for the long haul.

maybe with attendances dropping we might get down to the real support again and not just the people who turn up when things a champagn and roses.

COYRs

 

 

[Jourdan]

I really fail to see how Rowett lasts until Christmas if it continues in this vein.

That axe is going to fall sooner or later and it's probably only 1-2 painful performances away from happening.

Rowett appears genuinely out of his depth and at this point, he is hanging on for dear life.

[TuffLuff]

34 minutes ago, sage said:

I'm not saying he hasn't got ability but it's not as a number 10 in a 4231. He is a second striker. 

At some point he has to play Martin there. That is our best option if we insist on 4231. 

I really really miss Chris Martin

Also if Ledley was tiring, why not bring on Baird to win some tackles in midfield? 

[Ambitious]

All things considered, I think we've got game management to thank for getting a point. I don't believe any team with less than 30% possession in any game deserves anything other than a hammering. I know part of Rowett's plan was to surrender possession, allowing the opposition to come on to us, so we can exploit the space in their half quickly. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that, but we just don't seem to be doing all that well.   

Fundamentally, It's becoming more and more apparent that we lack quality - not endeavour, effort or grit. We lack technical players in key positions, we lack pace, we lack creativity & we don't seem capable of keeping possession as we play too many mindless, risky balls into the air. 

A point away at a good Brentford team isn't to be mocked. Brentford are simply a better football team than us. 

[needles]

 The worrying thing for me, as I've banged on about before, was Mel at the forum saying how this is as good a squad as we've had for a while. If he still genuinely believes that the implication is that Gary is underachieving. Not a situation that ends well or drags on with Mel.

I think he's wrong though. We had a so-so window, sold early (and low) and bought late, and probably have less quality and less balance than we had in spring. I certainly don't see how we get our best players on the pitch at once in a coherent XI.

Gaz needs another window....but will he get it. 

[needles]

6 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

All things considered, I think we've got game management to thank for getting a point. I don't believe any team with less than 30% possession in any game deserves anything other than a hammering. I know part of Rowett's plan was to surrender possession, allowing the opposition to come on to us, so we can exploit the space in their half quickly. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with that, but we just don't seem to be doing all that well.   

Fundamentally, It's becoming more and more apparent that we lack quality - not endeavour, effort or grit. We lack technical players in key positions, we lack pace, we lack creativity & we don't seem capable of keeping possession as we play too many mindless, risky balls into the air. 

A point away at a good Brentford team isn't to be mocked. Brentford are simply a better football team than us. 

That isn't a good Brentford team though, is it?

[Ambitious]

Just now, needles said:

That isn't a good Brentford team though, is it?

I would say so. I think they've been very unfortunate with their start to the season. 

They've been in control of pretty much every Championship game this season; consistently having the greater possession in their games and having the greater chances, but it's not lead to too much. We don't compare, we've consistently had less possession and fewer chances in the games we've played. 

Brentford will pick up, no doubt. I'd be stunned should we finish above them this season.