Kieftenbeld..... has he really signed?

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta said:

It's actually quite funny if it is true that the absolute turnip signed the wrong box on the initial form.

I understand that the contract was completely double-Dutch to him, and he is much more comfortable corresponding in single-Dutch.  

[ramblur]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

Of course I would but I've seen Callum Guy a lot and he has potential but he was never one I thought oh wow he is going to be good. 

I accept I don't know anything like as much as Derby Managers and Guy is only 20 but how old was Hughes when he got given his chance by Nigel Clough. 

Guy has been at Derby a while and I hope he proves himself but you have to ask the question why bother trying to sign Keith at all if Guy was Gary's answer.  

Guy did ok at Port Vale and played 11 games and 0 goals in league one but he's no

You can never tell though,curtains.Sometimes lads/girls (over a range of sports) thrive on playing at a higher level and put in performances better than they were showing at a lower level (think Dave Langan).Was there a fans' clamour for Hendrick/Hughes to be given their chance,or for Pete Daniel to be given a chance at CH? If there was,it went over my head.

As far as age goes,maybe NC would have given Guy a chance a long time ago.If Hughes and Hendrick were here now and at the same ages and stages of development as when Nigel gave them their chance,do you seriously think they'd have been given opportunities with a bloated squad of seniors and a promotion target?

Comparing Guy to Elsnik is like comparing George Williams to Durban.Different skill sets,but both effective.

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, lioncoeur said:

I think it's a sort of sci-fi scenario.  

Stranger things have happened. Leicester, Huddersfield, Burnley.

 

5 minutes ago, curtains said:

Of course I would but I've seen Callum Guy a lot and he has potential but he was never one I thought oh wow he is going to be good. 

I accept I don't know anything like as much as Derby Managers and Guy is only 20 but how old was Hughes when he got given his chance by Nigel Clough. 

Guy has been at Derby a while and I hope he proves himself but you have to ask the question why bother trying to sign Keith at all if Guy was Gary's answer.  

Guy did ok at Port Vale and played 11 games and 0 goals in league one but he's not been put forward by Wassall or Pearson or McClaren or Powell. 

Is he injured I think he is ! 

Marcus Tudgay wasn't a player that wowed in the reserves, was signed on a monthly contract until he was the only fit striker at the club, went on to have a decent career.

Hendrick was 19-20 the season he made his breakthrough, Hughes 17. Players develop at different rates, How old was Vardy when he got his chance in the Championship? Andre Gray?

We tried to sign Keith because Gary felt we needed another experienced player in. Guy may or may not be the answer, it could be Bird, or Hanson, or could be that none are needed because Thorne stays fit, Johnson finds form and Huddlestone goes from strength to strength.

He has returned to full training over a week ago.

12 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I've got an alternative for you - We already have at least 3/4 first team CMs and whilst a couple of them have injury issues if we can get half the games out of them this season we have enough players to not even have to use the u23s...

Just giving an example, full theoretical instance of what may happen, I know it is unlikely.

[oldtimeram]

8 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

OK. So when you said "falling on ones sword" you meant it in neither the literal or business sense? 

Maybe someone in senior management has accepted responsibility but I fail to see what would be gained by Mel, Gary or anyone else issuing a public statement other than to satisfy those that seem to be constantly looking for opportunities to discredit MM or GR

No I did not mean falling on ones sword literally but I do believe those responsible should hold their hands up and admit it was their mistake and not try to find excuses and justification for their failings in this instance.

MM is very quick to apportion blame so should do the same if he is responsible, as should GR too if to blame.

 

[oldtimeram]

They got it wrong though

[Ninos]

Much ado about nothing. 

If this is what it takes to get us to blood some of our prospects then I hope we have many more cockup signings on the wrong line deadline day! COYR!!

[angieram]

Since this topic seems to have turned into a discussion on the under 23s I'll add my opinion. Not dressed up as fact as some seem to prefer.

Of the four young players mentioned I think Max Bird is by far the most skilful on the ball. He is very quick to nip in and steal the ball from others. He is also used to playing CDM. He is physically not very mature and I do hope he gets stronger as my only fear for him playing at first team level is getting bullied off the ball by some of the thugs that play in our division. However, he may just be nippy enough not to let that happen - he certainly doesn't dwell on the ball - he distributes really well and quickly. Hasn't had any first team experience anywhere.

Elsnik is better playing further forward and I agree he shows real promise - not necessarily the right player as part of a CDM pair. I'm hopefully off to see him at Cheltenham on our next international break (if playing) and will report back. Still see him as more of an impact sub at first team level at this stage. I think he is itching to step up - feels it is his time.

Guy was looking the player most likely until he picked up an injury a couple of seasons ago. Got a great free kick on him, is physically strong, a bit rash at times in the tackle but he has a great engine and heart. He looked a bit rusty on the ball when he came back beginning of last season and I think the loan was what he needed. Unfortunately didn't get to check him out at Port Vale but reports were all positive. Not necessarily a natural CDM, more of a box-to-box like Bryson. Is he match fit? Probably not there yet. Is it time to give him a try when he is? Absolutely.

Hanson is a natural CDM - not quite big enough to play back four but strong, likes a tackle (as we know) and again, full of heart. Is he good enough? I've not seen much to say he is on current first team evidence but as others have pointed out he hasn't really had a sustained opportunity in this position. My biggest worries about him are awareness of position and distribution. Maybe the latter doesn't matter so much if playing alongside Tom; it would if coupled with Bradley.

Someone also mentioned Calum MacDonald - he's a promising full back and I've only seen him step into CDM a couple of times to cover injury. I thought he looked a bit lost there and was easily by-passed.

Finally I've seen our Manager at the under 23s games I have been to recently and my guess is he sees more of them all than some on here seem to think. He'll work it out.

Sorry to go so far off topic but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

[Curtains]

13 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

No I did not mean falling on ones sword literally but I do believe those responsible should hold their hands up and admit it was their mistake and not try to find excuses and justification for their failings in this instance.

MM is very quick to apportion blame so should do the same if he is responsible, as should GR too if to blame.

 

Does seem that player is taking the flack too much 

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, angieram said:

Since this topic seems to have turned into a discussion on the under 23s I'll add my opinion. Not dressed up as fact as some seem to prefer.

Of the four young players mentioned I think Max Bird is by far the most skilful on the ball. He is very quick to nip in and steal the ball from others. He is also used to playing CDM. He is physically not very mature and I do hope he gets stronger as my only fear for him playing at first team level is getting bullied off the ball by some of the thugs that play in our division. However, he may just be nippy enough not to let that happen - he certainly doesn't dwell on the ball - he distributes really well and quickly. Hasn't had any first team experience anywhere.

Elsnik is better playing further forward and I agree he shows real promise - not necessarily the right player as part of a CDM pair. I'm hopefully off to see him at Cheltenham on our next international break (if playing) and will report back. Still see him as more of an impact sub at first team level at this stage. I think he is itching to step up - feels it is his time.

Guy was looking the player most likely until he picked up an injury a couple of seasons ago. Got a great free kick on him, is physically strong, a bit rash at times in the tackle but he has a great engine and heart. He looked a bit rusty on the ball when he came back beginning of last season and I think the loan was what he needed. Unfortunately didn't get to check him out at Port Vale but reports were all positive. Not necessarily a natural CDM, more of a box-to-box like Bryson. Is he match fit? Probably not there yet. Is it time to give him a try when he is? Absolutely.

Hanson is a natural CDM - not quite big enough to play back four but strong, likes a tackle (as we know) and again, full of heart. Is he good enough? I've not seen much to say he is on current first team evidence but as others have pointed out he hasn't really had a sustained opportunity in this position. My biggest worries about him are awareness of position and distribution. Maybe the latter doesn't matter so much if playing alongside Tom; it would if coupled with Bradley.

Someone also mentioned Calum MacDonald - he's a promising full back and I've only seen him step into CDM a couple of times to cover injury. I thought he looked a bit lost there and was easily by-passed.

Finally I've seen our Manager at the under 23s games I have been to recently and my guess is he sees more of them all than some on here seem to think. He'll work it out.

Sorry to go so far off topic but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

That is you're best post ever .

Where is Vernam bye the way is he still injured. 

Hanson takes the best free kick in the 23s

I mentioned McDonald I rate him highly 

[oldtimeram]

6 minutes ago, curtains said:

Does seem that player is taking the flack too much 

Agree.  He should have been given far better guidance as to what he needed to do and exactly where to sign the document.

[rynny]

16 minutes ago, angieram said:

Since this topic seems to have turned into a discussion on the under 23s I'll add my opinion. Not dressed up as fact as some seem to prefer.

Of the four young players mentioned I think Max Bird is by far the most skilful on the ball. He is very quick to nip in and steal the ball from others. He is also used to playing CDM. He is physically not very mature and I do hope he gets stronger as my only fear for him playing at first team level is getting bullied off the ball by some of the thugs that play in our division. However, he may just be nippy enough not to let that happen - he certainly doesn't dwell on the ball - he distributes really well and quickly. Hasn't had any first team experience anywhere.

Elsnik is better playing further forward and I agree he shows real promise - not necessarily the right player as part of a CDM pair. I'm hopefully off to see him at Cheltenham on our next international break (if playing) and will report back. Still see him as more of an impact sub at first team level at this stage. I think he is itching to step up - feels it is his time.

Guy was looking the player most likely until he picked up an injury a couple of seasons ago. Got a great free kick on him, is physically strong, a bit rash at times in the tackle but he has a great engine and heart. He looked a bit rusty on the ball when he came back beginning of last season and I think the loan was what he needed. Unfortunately didn't get to check him out at Port Vale but reports were all positive. Not necessarily a natural CDM, more of a box-to-box like Bryson. Is he match fit? Probably not there yet. Is it time to give him a try when he is? Absolutely.

Hanson is a natural CDM - not quite big enough to play back four but strong, likes a tackle (as we know) and again, full of heart. Is he good enough? I've not seen much to say he is on current first team evidence but as others have pointed out he hasn't really had a sustained opportunity in this position. My biggest worries about him are awareness of position and distribution. Maybe the latter doesn't matter so much if playing alongside Tom; it would if coupled with Bradley.

Someone also mentioned Calum MacDonald - he's a promising full back and I've only seen him step into CDM a couple of times to cover injury. I thought he looked a bit lost there and was easily by-passed.

Finally I've seen our Manager at the under 23s games I have been to recently and my guess is he sees more of them all than some on here seem to think. He'll work it out.

Sorry to go so far off topic but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

Brilliant analysis. Not sure there are many on here that could rival your knowledge of the under 23s.

[ariotofmyown]

37 minutes ago, curtains said:

 Lets hope you're as positive after the next 3 months then. 

Its easy to be positive and then disappear when things go pear shaped. 

Anyone remember that general election thread a few months back?

[ariotofmyown]

38 minutes ago, curtains said:

 Lets hope you're as positive after the next 3 months then. 

Its easy to be positive and then disappear when things go pear shaped. 

I think there are a lot more moaners who disappear when we do well as opposed to positive people who go into hiding after a bad result.

[rynny]

2 minutes ago, oldtimeram said:

Agree.  He should have been given far better guidance as to what he needed to do and exactly where to sign the document.

Why, how much guidance did the club give him? Maybe next time they should send neon arrow signs, flashing with sign here on the documents?

[ThePrisoner]

37 minutes ago, rynny said:

Stranger things have happened. Leicester, Huddersfield, Burnley. 

It was certainly a close encounter missing the deadline. 

[Curtains]

12 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Anyone remember that general election thread a few months back?

Yes zzzzzzzzzzz

[Mistaram]

36 minutes ago, angieram said:

Since this topic seems to have turned into a discussion on the under 23s I'll add my opinion. Not dressed up as fact as some seem to prefer.

Of the four young players mentioned I think Max Bird is by far the most skilful on the ball. He is very quick to nip in and steal the ball from others. He is also used to playing CDM. He is physically not very mature and I do hope he gets stronger as my only fear for him playing at first team level is getting bullied off the ball by some of the thugs that play in our division. However, he may just be nippy enough not to let that happen - he certainly doesn't dwell on the ball - he distributes really well and quickly. Hasn't had any first team experience anywhere.

Elsnik is better playing further forward and I agree he shows real promise - not necessarily the right player as part of a CDM pair. I'm hopefully off to see him at Cheltenham on our next international break (if playing) and will report back. Still see him as more of an impact sub at first team level at this stage. I think he is itching to step up - feels it is his time.

Guy was looking the player most likely until he picked up an injury a couple of seasons ago. Got a great free kick on him, is physically strong, a bit rash at times in the tackle but he has a great engine and heart. He looked a bit rusty on the ball when he came back beginning of last season and I think the loan was what he needed. Unfortunately didn't get to check him out at Port Vale but reports were all positive. Not necessarily a natural CDM, more of a box-to-box like Bryson. Is he match fit? Probably not there yet. Is it time to give him a try when he is? Absolutely.

Hanson is a natural CDM - not quite big enough to play back four but strong, likes a tackle (as we know) and again, full of heart. Is he good enough? I've not seen much to say he is on current first team evidence but as others have pointed out he hasn't really had a sustained opportunity in this position. My biggest worries about him are awareness of position and distribution. Maybe the latter doesn't matter so much if playing alongside Tom; it would if coupled with Bradley.

Someone also mentioned Calum MacDonald - he's a promising full back and I've only seen him step into CDM a couple of times to cover injury. I thought he looked a bit lost there and was easily by-passed.

Finally I've seen our Manager at the under 23s games I have been to recently and my guess is he sees more of them all than some on here seem to think. He'll work it out.

Sorry to go so far off topic but it seemed relevant to the conversation.

Angleram Agree with you about Bird I've seen a few times yes he is nippy and gets the ball back well but I would have serious concerns about put him in a Championship match purely because he's nowhere near developed yet Imagine him up against Clayton when we play Boro ouch  Can you remember when we had Carroll and Bannon they were not ready but great players now Maybe give Bird a run at Barnsley on Tuesday when the result is not to important 

 

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, oldtimeram said:

To be honest I do not expect or want resignations, that is way over the top, but I do expect senior management to accept ultimate responsibility for the complete foul up. This seems to be sadly lacking in this instance. 

Give them chance. It only happened yesterday. Let's have a considered and rational response.

Though I do have a mental image....

 

 

[mozza]

So we were pinning all our hopes on this guy being the answer to all our prayers then?, in trouble now aren't we 

[MackworthRamIsGod]

1 minute ago, mozza said:

So we were pinning all our hopes on this guy being the answer to all our prayers then?, in trouble now aren't we 

Bit like a Turkey that has seen Bernard Matthews grinning at him.