For once back the manager

[sunnyhill60]

We haven't even had a low quality replacement yet

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, sunnyhill60 said:

The manager says he hopes Ince is still a Derby player this coming season but adds that if he were to leave then the club would look at a "very, very high quality replacement".

Fairly clear to me

Very clear to me too.

He would look for a good replacement within our budget. 

No promises of getting anything. 

Bet he's going to regret an interview where he mentioned targeting a top two finish as well.

[rammieib]

I think it's pedantic to say he wouldn't be replacing Ince with those actual words.

I don't want Rowett sacked but I need him to do do something very quickly with personnel, style or formation otherwise this season will be a Clough style year.

Morris won't settle for that.

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, rammieib said:

I think it's pedantic to say he wouldn't be replacing Ince with those actual words.

I don't want Rowett sacked but I need him to do do something very quickly with personnel, style or formation otherwise this season will be a Clough style year.

Morris won't settle for that.

He said he will be looking for a very very high quality replacement, that's a fact. 

If there is nobody available within our budget though what is he supposed to do?

He's evidently had bids in on players. 

The next thing will be people disputing the quality of our signings and saying he has not met his 'promise'.

[ramit]

Fans eh.  Can't live with em, can't live without em

[sunnyhill60]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

Very clear to me too.

He would look for a good replacement within our budget. 

No promises of getting anything. 

Bet he's going to regret an interview where he mentioned targeting a top two finish as well.

Since when could you get in 2017 a very very high quality replacement without parting with serious cash?

This "within our budget"  nonsense has been contrived by you to avoid being proved wrong..

 

[G STAR RAM]

5 hours ago, sunnyhill60 said:

Since when could you get in 2017 a very very high quality replacement without parting with serious cash?

This "within our budget"  nonsense has been contrived by you to avoid being proved wrong..

Well I read all of the time on here that if we look abroad we can get quality for a fraction of the price that we have been paying for players.

Nonesense? Have you listened to any of Rowett's interviews since he has been here? He has constantly told us we have a budget, will have to sell to finance purchases and will not pay over his valuations for players.

Or are you another that has chosen one line of one interview so you have a stick to beat him with?

[RoyMac5]

2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well I read all of the time on here that if we look abroad we can get quality for a fraction of the price that we have been paying for players.

Nonesense? Have you listened to any of Rowett's interviews since he has been here? He has constantly told us we have a budget, will have to sell to finance purchases and will not pay over his valuations for players.

Or are you another that has chosen one line of one interview so you have a stick to beat him with?

All of these things he's known for some time - he has spouted some seriously silly wordage on RamsTV. He's making it difficult for himself, digging a deeper hole. Would have been far better to aim the slant at Hughes & Ince wanting a new challenge in the Prem and we're looking for different options, than all this very, very stuff!

[TroyDyer]

I back Rowett completely. I said before the season that he will need at least 3 years, and an 8th place finish was about all we could hope for. 

The old guard aren't good enough, and the new lot don't care enough. That Clough togetherness has gone. That isn't something you can build overnight and GR needs time to clear the dead wood and stamp his style on the team. 

Unfortunately I don't think MM will give him the time. The temptation to remove the manager, go back to the SM style and win a few games. It never works long term though. 

I would have given Clement the three years his contract stated, and I would have (unpopular) given Pearson the time to try and finish what he was starting. 

The rot is deep. 

 

[DRBee]

Who exactly is calling for Rowett to go ? To focus on the manager without also asking questions about Mel Morris shows a lack of thought. We can't expect the financial situation to be made transparent, but what exactly was the driving force for the sale of Ince and Hughes without bringing in replacements ? Are we naive enough to think it is down solely to Rowett? When Rowett makes promises about replacements it reflects the pressure he is under from us supporters.

Since Morris was in sole charge of the club some very poor decisions have been made . Looks like that will continue.

[Inglorius]

9 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

He said he will be looking for a very very high quality replacement, that's a fact. 

If there is nobody available within our budget though what is he supposed to do?

He's evidently had bids in on players. 

The next thing will be people disputing the quality of our signings and saying he has not met his 'promise'.

The best thing for Rowett would have been not to have alluded to looking at bringing in a very, very high quality replacement for Ince if he were sold. It just reflects poorly on him now like some Blair or Cameronesque spin trying to sugar coat an unpopular decision.

[Derbados]

8 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

The best thing for Rowett would have been not to have alluded to looking at bringing in a very, very high quality replacement for Ince if he were sold. It just reflects poorly on him now like some Blair or Cameronesque spin trying to sugar coat an unpopular decision.

Spot on, and it's not the first thing he's said that he hasn't done or grossly oversold.

hes putting himself under uneccessary pressure, don't spin it, just be honest 

[brady1993]

I will back him in so much as I think he should have the season to see how he gets on (provided something disastrous doesn't happen). 

However I will criticise where appropriate and I personally feel there has been a reasonable amount to criticise so far. To my mind he's made quite a few questionable decisions so far and the way we have acquitted ourselves in the past two games does not inspire confidence (particularly when several issues seem tactical).

Ultimately the proof will be at the end of the season. For me anything less than a top 10 should be a no questions asked sacking. Between 10-6 questions should be asked of him but is potentially acceptable if there is a sense of it 'coming together'. Top 6 finish and he rightly gets to go again next year. 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

28 minutes ago, DRBee said:

Who exactly is calling for Rowett to go ? To focus on the manager without also asking questions about Mel Morris shows a lack of thought. We can't expect the financial situation to be made transparent, but what exactly was the driving force for the sale of Ince and Hughes without bringing in replacements ? Are we naive enough to think it is down solely to Rowett? When Rowett makes promises about replacements it reflects the pressure he is under from us supporters.

Since Morris was in sole charge of the club some very poor decisions have been made . Looks like that will continue.

Mel Morris backed his previous managers. Trusted them with his cash. They purchased badly without getting rid of some that should have gone. As a result we were/are restricted for cash due to FFP. We had to sell to buy. We sold our most valuable assets to raise cash as the others aren't very saleable, the cash bought Huddlestone, Davies & Wisdom. It seems we have some left for Lawrence. These latter decisions are made by Rowett. If you blame Mel for anything its getting the wrong managers in but that to me seems bit of a lottery anyway!

[cheron85]

16 hours ago, Barney1991 said:

After the game yesterday I know it was bad but for people to call for rowett to go is beyond a joke when we havent even given the guy the chance to ship the overpaid loonies out who by the way more than one manager has failed to get the best out soaybe people should start to look at the overpaid under achievers and based on the Fact that not one single team has enquired about them or put an offer in how the hell do you expect rowett to get rid of them when most have another at least 2 years on there contracts and I would hate to know there wages a week 

I'm not calling for Rowett to go but Saturday showed a desperate amount of tactical naivete by him - Or an organisational problem which the players hadn't been drilled on - He needs to learn and learn quickly

If you're playing against a five at the back you can't leave your 1 up front so isolated - Martin spent 90% of his time up against 3 CBs - We've seen him do a job against 2 every now and then but not against 3

It became very obvious very quickly that they were playing pretty much a 5-2-2-1 in defence moving to a 3-4-3 in attack - Their 'wingers' in attack were dropping inside to defend giving them a solid and packed central midfield area - Then on attack they broke for the wings giving them 2 on 1 with our full backs who got torn to pieces - And for some reason the team was playing everything inside, relying of the fullbacks for width and trying to play through a packed CM instead of dragging them wide and playing balls into the channels

The way to defend against that is to have your CMs pull out wide to cover the oncoming wing-backs - But neither Johnson or Butterfield were doing this - To be fair Butterfield probably doesn't have the legs to attack and defend in that way - Should have played Bryson - And so our wingers were getting sucked back to try and help out - Against a back three this shouldn't happen

So that meant our wingers were too far back when defending and weren't able to find the space they needed to - There are HUGE gaps for wingers when teams play wing backs - In behind the wing back - Use your wingers to drag the LHS and RHS CBs out of position - But we couldn't - Because Wiemann and Russell were having to track back so much

Then - Substitutions - Made way too late - There seems to be some obsession amongst managers that their half time team talks are actually effective - Statistically they aren't (ref: The Numbers Game) - Should have made changes at half time - Bryson on for Butterfield was a good move - Moving Johnson on to the wing was a dreadful move - Bringing on Anya at all was the final nail in the coffin - Plus they seemed to have no idea what formation they were supposed to be playing at that point and looked totally disorganised

 

Sorry for the rant - Good to get that out of my system - British managers seem to be the slowest to react to new styles of play - And the move away from the recently popular 4-3-3 seems to have stumped them - Rowett needs to learn from this, work out what kind of players he has and how best to make use of them - And pay attention a bit more to the way these 'new' formations are going to work and which players/styles are going to be best when playing against them

[Kennington Ram]

Complete sympathies with Gary at the moment. I suspect he's tried to put some players he probably wants out "in the shop window" by playing them, hoping someone else will take a punt. Unfortunately, it's just not happening. Players like Russell, Butterfield, Johnson are on runs of poor form that are starting to stretch to the majority of their stay at the club, into the years and years. How do you get rid of deadweight like that when it was signed on for so much?

[cheron85]

5 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said:

Complete sympathies with Gary at the moment. I suspect he's tried to put some players he probably wants out "in the shop window" by playing them, hoping someone else will take a punt. Unfortunately, it's just not happening. Players like Russell, Butterfield, Johnson are on runs of poor form that are starting to stretch to the majority of their stay at the club, into the years and years. How do you get rid of deadweight like that when it was signed on for so much?

I completely disagree - I'm much much more worried that Butterfield seems to be his first choice CM - I think the lineups he's played for the league games so far are his first choice team

[Kennington Ram]

Just now, cheron85 said:

I completely disagree - I'm much much more worried that Butterfield seems to be his first choice CM - I think the lineups he's played for the league games so far are his first choice team

Maybe - but equally I suspect we cannot afford to simply bench or leave at home Butterfield, Johnson, Russell, Weimann etc, wait for them to leave on a free and pay for a better replacement. We need someone to buy our tat, and meet what are probably hefty wage demands. It's not exactly an appealing offer for the buyer at the moment is it? "For sale - one used Butterfield, low on form and interest in the game. £2m ONO, £20k+ pw wages"

[cheron85]

6 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said:

Maybe - but equally I suspect we cannot afford to simply bench or leave at home Butterfield, Johnson, Russell, Weimann etc, wait for them to leave on a free and pay for a better replacement. We need someone to buy our tat, and meet what are probably hefty wage demands. It's not exactly an appealing offer for the buyer at the moment is it? "For sale - one used Butterfield, low on form and interest in the game. £2m ONO, £20k+ pw wages"

Don't see why not - There's been plenty of talk from the club about us being fine with FFP - I suspect that with Rowett's comments about Blackman he has probably now identified the guys who he wants out and has had words with them - The fact that Butterfield started most of the games last season and has now started the games this season suggests he's considered first choice

I don't see how a manager would come into a new season and say "I'm so convinced that we've got a squad capable of winning promotion that I'll play guys I don't want for the first few games in order to put them in the shop window"

Plus his statements about the mentality of the squad suggest they're all quite fired up - They just don't seem to be able to translate that into competitive games - I think Saturday was tactically terrible and they were asking Butterfield especially to play a role he is completely unsuited to

We took my sister's boyfriend to the game on Saturday and his comment was "They don't look like a team. They look like they've never played with each other before" - That's something which I lay at the feet of the coaching staff

[duncanjwitham]

I'm all for backing a manager, but he's got to show us *something* to deserve it.  I go to games to see good players play good football and hopefully see Derby win.  We've sold our 2 best players and haven't yet replaced them, and we're actively choosing to play rubbish long-ball football.  So the only thing left is results - and if we're not getting any of that either, what else is there to cling on to?  If we had a bunch of new players that hadn't gelled yet, I'd be happy to give the manager time. If we were trying to get some good football flowing and it wasn't quite clicking yet, I'd be happy to give the manager time.  If I could see what the manager was even trying to achieve, I'd be happy to give him time.

The only thing we've seen this season (and for most of his games last season) is a disorganised bunch of average players, who are almost all being asked to do jobs they can't do. I've seen absolutely nothing from Rowett (either on the pitch, or in interviews) to suggest he has any idea at all what he's doing.  Tactically, he's incredibly naive, and he seems to have absolutely no clue how to use the players he has, or even what they're good and bad at.  We look completely clueless going forward.  The back 4 looks the worst it's looked in years, despite being the focus of the summer transfer dealings.  His post match interview on Saturday was utterly baffling as well.

I like Gary, I want him to do well, but I just haven't seen anything so far to justify any faith in him at all.  And more importantly, I'm really not sure I want to be in the place he's going to take us, if we give him time to sort it.  I really can't face 3 years of rebuilding, if we end up with a dour, boring, defensive team like his Birmingham and Burton teams were.