Srg Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Highgate said: I don't know how it is that GR has already achieved infallibility status among so many Derby fans. It's like we've appointed Alex Ferguson as manager or something, and even Ferguson made numerous mistakes in the transfer market throughout his career. Apparently there is no chance at all that Rowett might make an error. Let's wait as see how his teams play and his transfer dealings work out first before declaring Rowett the messiah and concluding that, as fans, we're not even worthy to discuss the merits of his decisions in a forum. Not sure how you're getting infallibility from @TroyDyer post. He's right in what he says, we can discuss it one way or another, add our uneducated two penneth - because let's face it, that's why we use this forum - but at the end of the day, Gary Rowett is the manager so we should trust what he does (doesn't mean we can't question at the same time) until he gives us cause not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyDyer Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Highgate said: I don't know how it is that GR has already achieved infallibility status among so many Derby fans. It's like we've appointed Alex Ferguson as manager or something, and even Ferguson made numerous mistakes in the transfer market throughout his career. Apparently there is no chance at all that Rowett might make an error. Let's wait as see how his teams play and his transfer dealings work out first before declaring Rowett the messiah and concluding that, as fans, we're not even worthy to discuss the merits of his decisions in a forum. The irony being that you quoted my original post "If Rowett thinks he's good enough, then IMO he is good enough until he shows himself not to be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Srg said: Not sure how you're getting infallibility from @TroyDyer post. He's right in what he says, we can discuss it one way or another, add our uneducated two penneth - because let's face it, that's why we use this forum - but at the end of the day, Gary Rowett is the manager so we should trust what he does (doesn't mean we can't question at the same time) until he gives us cause not to. We should trust in what he does and question it at the same time......? Not sure i follow your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Highgate said: I don't know how it is that GR has already achieved infallibility status among so many Derby fans. It's like we've appointed Alex Ferguson as manager or something, and even Ferguson made numerous mistakes in the transfer market throughout his career. Apparently there is no chance at all that Rowett might make an error. Let's wait as see how his teams play and his transfer dealings work out first before declaring Rowett the messiah and concluding that, as fans, we're not even worthy to discuss the merits of his decisions in a forum. I don't think anyone is - Except I think there's a willingness and a hopefulness that we'll at least give Rowett a decent amount of time to prove one way or the other If we're in the bottom half at Christmas, playing badly and everyone's annoyed then he'll probably have to go - Since he's set some fairly ambitious targets - However if we're around the top 6 come Christmas we'll be patient - And even if we don't get promoted this season (or next) as long as we're consistently challenging and improving that's all we ask for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Highgate said: We should trust in what he does and question it at the same time......? Not sure i follow your logic. Not sure what's confusing here... Take the example of the Whelan rumour. I was against his signing due to a number of reasons, but if GR saw a reason to sign him and the deal went through then I'd support his decision and see how it went. So yes I'd question it, but I wouldn't be calling him a clueless f**k for making that signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, TroyDyer said: The irony being that you quoted my original post "If Rowett thinks he's good enough, then IMO he is good enough until he shows himself not to be." Why does it matter what Rowett thinks about his own abilities? And why would you allow your opinion to automatically mirror his? All that matters is whether he is actually good enough or not...and only time will tell in that regard. He has only been Derby manager for a short time, and like all managers who've just started a new job, he has yet to prove himself here. I'm sure he knows that only too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Srg said: Not sure what's confusing here... Take the example of the Whelan rumour. I was against his signing due to a number of reasons, but if GR saw a reason to sign him and the deal went through then I'd support his decision and see how it went. So yes I'd question it, but I wouldn't be calling him a clueless f**k for making that signing. Well as someone who has seen Whelan play about 60 times, I'm pretty sure that you were right to be against that transfer. Nobody is calling GR a clueless f**k. What you are saying is that you'll believe in Rowett and trust him even if you think he is making the wrong decision. You'll assume he is right and you are wrong. But why such faith in him? Each team in the league has a manager...why are we so sure that our manager will make better decisions than the other managers in the league? which is, after all, what he has to do if he is to get us promoted. Far better to have our doubts now, express them, and then after we see how his teams play, assess whether his decisions were good or ones. Can't understand the blind faith brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Just now, Highgate said: Well as someone who has seen Whelan play about 60 times, I'm pretty sure that you were right to be against that transfer. Nobody is calling GR a clueless f**k. What you are saying is that you'll believe in Rowett and trust him even if you think he is making the wrong decision. You'll assume he is right and you are wrong. But why such faith in him? Each team in the league has a manager...why are we so sure that our manager will make better decisions than the other managers in the league? which is, after all, what he has to do if he is to get us promoted. Far better to have our doubts now, express them, and then after we see how his teams play, assess whether his decisions were good or ones. Can't understand the blind faith brigade. You can express doubts all you want, and you're within you're right to do so (as long as it's in a manner which articulates your point of view), but do you not want to support the current manager of the football team you support once a signing actually happens? After all, he's paid to be the expert, we are just mere fans. We can't assume he will make better decisions than other managers, no one is saying that, what we are saying though is that we shouldn't hang the guy by the signings, and rumours, that happen before we've even seen them on the pitch in a Gary Rowett team because that's just mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Highgate said: Far better to have our doubts now, express them, and then after we see how his teams play, assess whether his decisions were good or ones. Can't understand the blind faith brigade. Because you are assuming the only way forward is either "blind faith" or "necessary pessimism" - There are other options You seem to be approaching from a "assume he's terrible until he proves otherwise" side - Whereas I am having faith and assuming he's gonna be okay until proven otherwise - I'm not ever going to let go of my critical functions but I'm choosing to approach this season with a sense of optimism rather than pessimism Dismissing everyone who wants to be positive as a "blind faith brigade" is rather childish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 2 million isn't a lot for Championship signings anymore. If he improves, then we'll make a healthy profit on selling him on. I can't say I've seen much of him, but for the fee quoted I don't see a huge risk being attached, that being said, I think the most pressing issue is signing a winger. Perhaps indicates Butterfield or even Vydra being on their way out? I imagine Vydra is being kept in mind for the 10 role, and if we do end up playing with 4-2-3-1 formation, I don't think Butterfield has the physicality to be part of the 2. Could be that Rowett just wants more competition for the role, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Srg said: You can express doubts all you want, and you're within you're right to do so (as long as it's in a manner which articulates your point of view), but do you not want to support the current manager of the football team you support once a signing actually happens? After all, he's paid to be the expert, we are just mere fans. We can't assume he will make better decisions than other managers, no one is saying that, what we are saying though is that we shouldn't hang the guy by the signings, and rumours, that happen before we've even seen them on the pitch in a Gary Rowett team because that's just mental. I think i've made it clear that I will judge Rowett on his team's performance's and results. What could be fairer than that? Of course we should support to team on match day, that goes without saying. But to express faith and trust in, an as yet unproven manager, would be entirely illogical at this point. As would tempering our honest opinions on his transfer dealings by automatically assuming his competence (relative to the standards expected). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Highgate said: Well as someone who has seen Whelan play about 60 times, I'm pretty sure that you were right to be against that transfer. Nobody is calling GR a clueless f**k. What you are saying is that you'll believe in Rowett and trust him even if you think he is making the wrong decision. You'll assume he is right and you are wrong. But why such faith in him? Each team in the league has a manager...why are we so sure that our manager will make better decisions than the other managers in the league? which is, after all, what he has to do if he is to get us promoted. Far better to have our doubts now, express them, and then after we see how his teams play, assess whether his decisions were good or ones. Can't understand the blind faith brigade. To call posters who are prepared to give support to the manager 'the blind faith brigade' is ludicrous. As Derby County fans he should be entitled to expect to have their backing until and unless his decisions begin to have a detrimental effect on the team performance and subsequently his relationship with the board. I'm sure the vast majority of fans willingly give him their support at the start of the new season - that's how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Wolfie20 said: To call posters who are prepared to give support to the manager 'the blind faith brigade' is ludicrous. As Derby County fans he should be entitled to expect to have their backing until and unless his decisions begin to have a detrimental effect on the team performance and subsequently his relationship with the board. I'm sure the vast majority of fans willingly give him their support at the start of the new season - that's how it should be. The blind faith brigade, to me, at this stage are simply the ones that refuse to criticise anything whatsoever without justified reasoning. Don't believe we have many of those currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, cheron85 said: Because you are assuming the only way forward is either "blind faith" or "necessary pessimism" - There are other options You seem to be approaching from a "assume he's terrible until he proves otherwise" side - Whereas I am having faith and assuming he's gonna be okay until proven otherwise - I'm not ever going to let go of my critical functions but I'm choosing to approach this season with a sense of optimism rather than pessimism Dismissing everyone who wants to be positive as a "blind faith brigade" is rather childish No, I'm really not assuming he is terrible. I don't know how you've reached that conclusion. In fact i don't think he is, I think he'll prove a good motivator and organiser. I am concerned about the style of football he wants to play however and whether it will prove successful in the long run. But all l I'm saying is that we should wait for the results to roll in before allowing ourselves to believe in him or not. Surely that's no unfair? A fellow poster said 'If Rowett thinks he is good enough, then IMO he is good enough...until he shows himself not to be'. What on earth is that if it's not blind faith. What has he done to earn our trust so far? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to say 'If Rowett thinks he is good enough.....let him prove it one way or the other.' Until then, we will reserve judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwram1973 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: To call posters who are prepared to give support to the manager 'the blind faith brigade' is ludicrous. As Derby County fans he should be entitled to expect to have their backing until and unless his decisions begin to have a detrimental effect on the team performance and subsequently his relationship with the board. I'm sure the vast majority of fans willingly give him their support at the start of the new season - that's how it should be. Totally agree, at matches you have to sit and listen to these clowns moaning about everything and they are only happy when the managers are not doing well (because obviously these fools can do better). Fortunately I don't have to listen to these people on here, so Highgate, i'm fed up of ya winging so welcome to the ignored list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Wolfie20 said: To call posters who are prepared to give support to the manager 'the blind faith brigade' is ludicrous. As Derby County fans he should be entitled to expect to have their backing until and unless his decisions begin to have a detrimental effect on the team performance and subsequently his relationship with the board. I'm sure the vast majority of fans willingly give him their support at the start of the new season - that's how it should be. Just to point out, we are not Gary Rowett fans....we are Derby County fans. As I've already said, we should support the team on matchday...but to conclude that we can't reserve judgement on the manager until he has actually produced some positive results is what seems ludicrous to me. Anyone who trusts his decision making without yet seeing the results of those same decisions can be accused of having blind faith in my opinion. I couldn't care less about Rowett (like anybody i don't know), all I care about is whether he is the right manager for Derby and whether he will be able to do what the club are paying him to do to a sufficiently high level. None of us know the answer to that yet. I wish him success but how is it controversial to simply state we should wait and see before judging his qualities as a manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Srg said: The blind faith brigade, to me, at this stage are simply the ones that refuse to criticise anything whatsoever without justified reasoning. Don't believe we have many of those currently. The blind faith brigade are the new happy clappers. By the same token, the new wrist-slashers could be d*******s. Or they could be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 I remember rating him highly for Birmingham when he played against us at PP For £1-2 million would be a good asset, I'd imagine for the number 10 role, but would rather see us sign 2 quality wingers than 1 and Toral if it was a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie20 Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Highgate said: Just to point out, we are not Gary Rowett fans....we are Derby County fans. As I've already said, we should support the team on matchday...but to conclude that we can't reserve judgement on the manager until he has actually produced some positive results is what seems ludicrous to me. Anyone who trusts his decision making without yet seeing the results of those same decisions can be accused of having blind faith in my opinion. I couldn't care less about Rowett (like anybody i don't know), all I care about is whether he is the right manager for Derby and whether he will be able to do what the club are paying him to do to a sufficiently high level. None of us know the answer to that yet. I wish him success but how is it controversial to simply state we should wait and see before judging his qualities as a manager? Seems like the difference between most fans' view and yours is that they see their club appointing Rowett as their manager and are prepared to support that decision until that decision proves to be the wrong one whereas you withhold your support until the decision proves to be the correct one (and then jump on the bandwagon). I have no idea whether Rowett will be a success or not but until the point is reached when I can decide the answer to that question, I prefer to look on the optimistic side rather than the pessimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thierry Ennui Posted July 18, 2017 Share Posted July 18, 2017 Not sure why everyone is talking about blind faith when this is a player many of us saw tear it up at pride park before winning player of the year at Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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