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Myth busting


i-Ram
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I have seen in recent days a number of posts referring to our 'classic' 433 system, and that we should now be buying players that fit 'our' system.  The reference point being the 2013/14 season.

But were we really that good in 2013/14? Yes l know we were by far the better team in our 'cup final' vs QPR, and played really very well against Brighton in the playoffs, and a few other games during that season, including a couple when Nigel was in charge. But there were a number of games that season we were just plain average, and pinched odd goal victories. We really were not so great most of the time. Wasn't it just nice to be something other than woeful for a while?

l think it's time to look forward and leave that season behind. Gary Rowett doesn't need to benchmark himself against that season, or be restricted by that system. For those of us who have been around a few years, we know there are far better seasons (and teams) he should be aspiring towards.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I have seen in recent days a number of posts referring to our 'classic' 433 system, and that we should now be buying players that fit 'our' system.  The reference point being the 2013/14 season.

But were we really that good in 2013/14? Yes l know we were by far the better team in our 'cup final' vs QPR, and played really very well against Brighton in the playoffs, and a few other games during that season, including a couple when Nigel was in charge. But there were a number of games that season we were just plain average, and pinched odd goal victories. We really were not so great most of the time. Wasn't it just nice to be something other than woeful for a while?

l think it's time to look forward and leave that season behind. Gary Rowett doesn't need to benchmark himself against that season, or be restricted by that system. For those of us who have been around a few years, we know there are far better seasons (and teams) he should be aspiring towards.

 

 

 

Hallelujah!!

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Yes we were that good. Because you can't expect to play well every game, especially in the Championship.

There were games we sneaked by in. We won 1-0 I think three times in a week against Brighton, Sheff Wed and QPR where we certainly didn't hit top gear.

But for the large part of the season we were excellent. Top goal scorers, so fluid in our build-up play and aggressive out of possession. We created an abundance of chances in some games.

When we beat Watford 4-2, we had enough chances to hit double figures that day. 

How often could you say that during the past two seasons? Even in Mac's second season, we reverted to a more controlling style and it seemed we didn't create half as many chances. 

Incidentally, I can't remember the last time we created as many chances as we did against Forest in that second half. Ince found himself one on one with their fullback about six times. Was crazy 

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I think David Nugents very honest assessment of Macs time at Derby suggested that the formation wasn't the problem.

If Mac was insisting on the players keeping the ball at the expense of attacking it didn't matter what our formation was.

In Rowett I believe we have someone who just wants to play a bloody football match in the way that god intended for it to be played.....kick the ball, pass it, shoot, score....simple 

 

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PistoldPete2
1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said:

Yes we were that good. Because you can't expect to play well every game, especially in the Championship.

There were games we sneaked by in. We won 1-0 I think three times in a week against Brighton, Sheff Wed and QPR where we certainly didn't hit top gear.

But for the large part of the season we were excellent. Top goal scorers, so fluid in our build-up play and aggressive out of possession. We created an abundance of chances in some games.

When we beat Watford 4-2, we had enough chances to hit double figures that day. 

How often could you say that during the past two seasons? Even in Mac's second season, we reverted to a more controlling style and it seemed we didn't create half as many chances. 

Incidentally, I can't remember the last time we created as many chances as we did against Forest in that second half. Ince found himself one on one with their fullback about six times. Was crazy 

Well I think we could and should have scored wAy more than we did against wolves,  Cardiff, Rotherham etc. 

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What team ever dominates every game in this league? You have to judge a team across a season and we reached the play-off finals, so the evidence that we were at very least decent is quite compelling.

That said, is it necessary for us to emulate that phase in order to be successful? On that note I'd say absolutely not and it'll be interesting to see whether GR is better equipped to bring about changes than Old Blockhead proved to be. Let's face it, he can't be any worse.

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The 13/14 team was superb, rarely do you see such sumptuous football in the championship so a more direct or safe system does not excite.

The fact that such entertaining football owed so much to journeymen like Buxton, Eustace, & Ward, freebies like Martin, bargain basements like Bryson, Russell & Forsyth, coupled with academy kids like Hughes and Hendrick, made it all so much sweeter.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I think David Nugents very honest assessment of Macs time at Derby suggested that the formation wasn't the problem.

If Mac was insisting on the players keeping the ball at the expense of attacking it didn't matter what our formation was.

In Rowett I believe we have someone who just wants to play a bloody football match in the way that god intended for it to be played.....kick the ball, pass it, shoot, score....simple 

 

Agree wholeheartedly with your final paragraph. I too believe that's what he will want from our players. And, I believe we will see signs before this season is out that we have a cracking squad here ready to give him that. 

 

And with Thorne, Martin, Forsyth and new signings to come, I'm hopeful. 

 

Some others will fall by the wayside this summer, moving on for differing reasons. Much depends I suppose on what they offer GR in the next 8 games. 

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I think it's a mix of both ,, yes we really looked good , our passing and movement was tops and a joy to watch ,, that was also exaggerated by the fact that for such a long time we had been dross and unable to complete the simplest of passes , movement off the ball is the key for me , that takes a very fit team and is key to keeping possession of the ball but with the mystical magical ingredient of actually making use of the ball , for a while now our players ( management instructed?) have confused this theory with the idea that position football is tapping it round square and backwards in areas where we feel teams won't press to get it off us,,,,, wrong wrong wrong ,, we should be working on a player having at least two passes available when he has the ball , preferably offensive passes that hurt the opposition and pull them around ,, it ain't so easy for hard working teams to press us high if our lot are at very minimum at least as hard working in making themselves available to receive the ball in areas that by pass them 

 

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9 hours ago, 1of4 said:

I don't care if we play

442

433

352

5221

5212

1111111111

13231

42121

4231

I just want us to play well, compete and hopefully win.

 

Just noticed a major failing with all these formation we are only playing with ten men.?

Well no wonder we can't last the season!!!

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17 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

I think David Nugents very honest assessment of Macs time at Derby suggested that the formation wasn't the problem.

If Mac was insisting on the players keeping the ball at the expense of attacking it didn't matter what our formation was.

In Rowett I believe we have someone who just wants to play a bloody football match in the way that god intended for it to be played.....kick the ball, pass it, shoot, score....simple 

 

Missed this from Nugent. Do you have a link to where it's reported? What you say sounds sensible and obvious and what so many of us have been saying. If the players were instructed otherwise, you do despair, but everything Rowett has said so far suggests he's on the right lines. Football's actually a pretty simple game but sometimes managers try to prove their superiority and end up over-complicating it.

Edit: Probably found it: http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/we-weren-t-really-going-anywhere-under-steve-mcclaren-admits-derby-county-striker-david-nugent/story-30224509-detail/story.html

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24 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Not really what Nuge said though is it. More clickbait headlines from the DET. Or mischief making if you only read the headline?

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18 hours ago, i-Ram said:

But were we really that good in 2013/14? Yes l know we were by far the better team in our 'cup final' vs QPR, and played really very well against Brighton in the playoffs, and a few other games during that season, including a couple when Nigel was in charge. But there were a number of games that season we were just plain average, and pinched odd goal victories. 

Isn't that the mark of a great side though? When you're playing well you're unplayable (Brighton second leg, Forest at home) and when you're having an off day you still win by the odd goal?

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In all honesty, and as others have said, I do think we were 'that good'. The problem is being that team who are nice on the eye 9/10 doesn't pay dividends. Sheffield Wednesday were seen as that team last year, but when you don't get promoted then it puts a target on your back and other teams just look to neutralise you. I've had a few different conversations with Wednesday fans (I live up that way) and they have all said along the lines of "when a team comes to play we look magnificent but when teams like burton just defend we can't break them down", and where have we heard that before? Teams work you out eventually and it can be very difficult to cope with.

Final point, but I do think people get a little obsessed with formations and 'this player can only play this way' and I don't think it's the case. It's more about getting the right mix of players who compliment each other into an 11 not essentially where they play. For example if we need a hold up player upfront then that player should be able to do it as a lone striker or in a two if the balance is correct

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20 hours ago, i-Ram said:

I have seen in recent days a number of posts referring to our 'classic' 433 system, and that we should now be buying players that fit 'our' system.  The reference point being the 2013/14 season.

But were we really that good in 2013/14? Yes l know we were by far the better team in our 'cup final' vs QPR, and played really very well against Brighton in the playoffs, and a few other games during that season, including a couple when Nigel was in charge. But there were a number of games that season we were just plain average, and pinched odd goal victories. We really were not so great most of the time. Wasn't it just nice to be something other than woeful for a while?

l think it's time to look forward and leave that season behind. Gary Rowett doesn't need to benchmark himself against that season, or be restricted by that system. For those of us who have been around a few years, we know there are far better seasons (and teams) he should be aspiring towards.

 

 

 

Yes we were that good. We really were. In that season we broke the record for points in a season and goals in a season. Better than Jim Smiths promo season. Better than Billy Davies promo season.  We were so unfortunate that Burnley and Leicester were so strong. We were incredible for around 50 games.  Unfortunately those 50 games were split across the last 30 games of 2014 and first 20 games of 2015 seasons.

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