Drama Queens

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Rams said:

I'm utterly convinced we'll never get promoted with McCLaren as manager.His style of management is the exact opposite of what's needed in this division to be successful.Look at Boro and Burnley last season..Two 'steady Eddie' types at the helm is what is needed over a 46 match campaign.Just what McCLaren isn't.His past record tells you this.Boro, England, Newcastle,Derby two years ago.Lots of highs..Long unbeaten runs..Tight defence not conceding goals.Then the total opposite.Shipping goals aplenty and can't buy a win.Its been like that for McCLarens teams wherever he's been at.High scoring games are all well and good for excitement granted but the results are completely unpredictable.At 3-3 last night I was certain there would be another goal scored.Who by? No idea! The results are entirely 50/50 which will over a season will just leave you around mid- table.                                   As well as McCLarens well known habit of bottling it when it really matters.England v Croatia anyone? A measly home draw needed to qualify for the Euro finals... Alas 2-3! Wally with the brolley and all that.Derby v QPR? We were highest scorers in the division yet couldn't find just one against a team dead on their feet who had ten men for 35 minutes.

No the more I look at it the more I come to the conclusion we've no chance of the Premier League whilst Mac is in charge.Exciting football..Loads of goals.. Highs and Lows..Yes all of these.But Promotion? Sadly no.

Was it mcclarens fault we didn't score against QPR? Derby had had several seasons of lower championship football before he came and he took us to Wembley so saying no chance of achieving promotion is a bit strange when we were very close to doing so. We were looking at the bottom three when he took over again this season and now we are actually top half of the table. McClaren is a good manager and i know that because his Derby teams win more often than they lose. His win record is over 50 per cent. 

[europia]

52 minutes ago, Davide said:

Was it mcclarens fault we didn't score against QPR? Derby had had several seasons of lower championship football before he came and he took us to Wembley so saying no chance of achieving promotion is a bit strange when we were very close to doing so. We were looking at the bottom three when he took over again this season and now we are actually top half of the table. McClaren is a good manager and i know that because his Derby teams win more often than they lose. His win record is over 50 per cent. 

Yes the dream of a top six place is better than the reality of mid to lower table mediocrity. Surely no one would argue with that.

[DEL]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never won more than we lost since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

Bloody hell Alpha this post made my day. Spot on tbf. ?

[BobbyD]

Finally, some reason and logic , thanks for that @Alpha

I got home late after the match and stayed up even later going through all the post match posts 

To me, the hand-wringing and scapegoat-finding is utterly predictable and boring. It doesn't annoy me, I expect it and discount  it. 

What I find frustrating though is that there is so little analysis and genuine understanding of what has gone on. The reason I go through the posts is to try to find a logical explanation for what happened in the match - personally thats what interests me. 

I have watched and played football for over  50 years. But I have to admit that tactically, I don't really understand what is happening . I would just love it if people could actually explain in footballing terms the basic reasons why what happened did happen. Instead of just describing it as rubbish, not good enough or unacceptable.

Alpha is one of the few who seem to try to address this.

 

 

[NottsRam77]

One of the best posts iv read 

[Dimmu]

Quality rant again, @Alpha!

Any longer and it would've been too... dramatic.

[Ewe Ram]

4 hours ago, curtains said:

With his budget at Derby. 

 In retrospect Clough did the best and signed decent players .

I'd counter that, by the gates, the paying fans did not agree. We get you loved Clough but I'd love it if you let it drop 

[Ewe Ram]

1 hour ago, BobbyD said:

Finally, some reason and logic , thanks for that @Alpha

I got home late after the match and stayed up even later going through all the post match posts 

To me, the hand-wringing and scapegoat-finding is utterly predictable and boring. It doesn't annoy me, I expect it and discount  it. 

What I find frustrating though is that there is so little analysis and genuine understanding of what has gone on. The reason I go through the posts is to try to find a logical explanation for what happened in the match - personally thats what interests me. 

I have watched and played football for over  50 years. But I have to admit that tactically, I don't really understand what is happening . I would just love it if people could actually explain in footballing terms the basic reasons why what happened did happen. Instead of just describing it as rubbish, not good enough or unacceptable.

Alpha is one of the few who seem to try to address this.

 

 

This pretty much could have been written by me except I've never played football. I get the annoyance, I was furious myself but try and find any sensible comment on the game and you come up with nothing. It's all criticism, name calling, ott reactionary stuff and no substance which leads me to believe that most fans don't even understand anything apart from the score. 

[cannable]

7 hours ago, Alpha said:

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

To be fair on this one I think it's a case of him trying to nurture the football again. He said that this was the season it which we re-established the culture. De Sart and Nugent are more like Mac 1 footballers than Mac 2. 

It's always been about next season. 

And judging by the frantic and ridiculous scorlines it appears we're getting back to Mac 1 

[Andicis]

4 hours ago, Patrick Rams said:

I'm utterly convinced we'll never get promoted with McCLaren as manager.His style of management is the exact opposite of what's needed in this division to be successful.Look at Boro and Burnley last season..Two 'steady Eddie' types at the helm is what is needed over a 46 match campaign.Just what McCLaren isn't.His past record tells you this.Boro, England, Newcastle,Derby two years ago.Lots of highs..Long unbeaten runs..Tight defence not conceding goals.Then the total opposite.Shipping goals aplenty and can't buy a win.Its been like that for McCLarens teams wherever he's been at.High scoring games are all well and good for excitement granted but the results are completely unpredictable.At 3-3 last night I was certain there would be another goal scored.Who by? No idea! The results are entirely 50/50 which will over a season will just leave you around mid- table.                                   As well as McCLarens well known habit of bottling it when it really matters.England v Croatia anyone? A measly home draw needed to qualify for the Euro finals... Alas 2-3! Wally with the brolley and all that.Derby v QPR? We were highest scorers in the division yet couldn't find just one against a team dead on their feet who had ten men for 35 minutes.

No the more I look at it the more I come to the conclusion we've no chance of the Premier League whilst Mac is in charge.Exciting football..Loads of goals.. Highs and Lows..Yes all of these.But Promotion? Sadly no.

Okay, you say look at the steady eddie clubs, well okay. Those two were promoted with managers they have had for a while, then look at Watford and Norwich the season before that. Both had multiple managers during that season (think Watford had 3 that year?) They were promoted? So how can you say that only steady eddies are needed with 2 examples, when I can name 2 from the top of my head that changed managers and got promoted? 

[Spanish]

6 minutes ago, cannable said:

. 

It's always been about next season. 

 

FTFY

[cannable]

5 minutes ago, Spanish said:

FTFY

Errrrrm, no.

[Comrade 86]

9 hours ago, Alpha said:

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never won more than we lost since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

Can't say I disagree with any of this. Solid work @Alpha

[Warren Hobhead]

3 hours ago, Ewe Ram said:

This pretty much could have been written by me except I've never played football. I get the annoyance, I was furious myself but try and find any sensible comment on the game and you come up with nothing. It's all criticism, name calling, ott reactionary stuff and no substance which leads me to believe that most fans don't even understand anything apart from the score. 

Agreed. Alpha nailed it as well. Far too many on here post as though they know exactly what to do, exactly what's wrong and exactly who should be playing and why. Yet as most of their posts show/prove they are miles off. I'd like to be able to say "me too" but I can't, because I don't post like that. I merely give a summary of the game I attended and stick to praising and supporting, sometimes defending. 

 

Platforms such as this will entice all sorts though and whilst I can never get my head around the name calling, the writing off of players, the excuses made for others, the hypocrisy etc, it's a free forum for all. I just get the feeling when reading much of this forum that these people are angry to be a Ram. It angers them. They don't appear to enjoy it. 

 

Each to their own. I believe we've a very good squad and a very good manager and if we could field a consistent lineup we'd win more than we lose. In fact, we are doing that regardless. Theres always next season as well. That's the fact many miss. I'll be there until I drop dead, it's not a right here right now scenario in my mind. 

 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

By way of apology to some very erudite posters like @Warren Hobhead and @Ewe Ram among others,  some of us are living off scanty details of matches when we post.

We ought to caveat our posts as such but I imagine quite a lot of opinion dressed up as fact gets through. 

So anyway,  we on for these playoffs or what?

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, curtains said:

Clough ,McClaren,Clement.Wassall, Pearson , McClaren .

Ok that's fine. 

What game are you playing here?

Is it the one where you give us the answer and we have to guess the question?

Ok here goes...

Name the last 6 managers that Curtains has liked one day and wanted sacking the next?

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

What game are you playing here?

Is it the one where you give us the answer and we have to guess the question?

Ok here goes...

Name the last 6 managers that Curtains has liked one day and wanted sacking the next?

You are Sam Rush I claim my 5 pounds. 

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, curtains said:

You are Sam Rush I claim my 5 pounds. 

Do you want me sacked as well?

See Jeremy Keith and Nigel Pearson as your dream team.

[Mafiabob]

9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

What game are you playing here?

Is it the one where you give us the answer and we have to guess the question?

Ok here goes...

Name the last 6 managers that Curtains has liked one day and wanted sacking the next? Lol

FTFY 

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Do you want me sacked as well?

See Jeremy Keith and Nigel Pearson as your dream team.

No I like you Sam but sometimes you are bit misguided.

You bought Pearson in didn't you !