Drama Queens

[Curtains]

2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

What point are you trying to make? 

You need to worry about the ownership and its ability to get it right. 

They have it wrong again by bringing McClaren back IMO. 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

and out of those, who's produced the most?

I would class success as getting to the Premier League. 

 

None 

[mrdave85]

Just now, curtains said:

You need to worry about the ownership and its ability to get it right. 

They have it wrong again by bringing McClaren back IMO. 

I think judging from where we were when McClaren took over from Pearson they've done okay actually. 

[mrdave85]

Just now, curtains said:

I would class success as getting to the Premier League. 

 

Clough believe it or not. 

Oh now you really are just trolling. I'm out.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

Oh now you really are just trolling. I'm out.

With his budget at Derby. 

 In retrospect Clough did the best and signed decent players .

[mrdave85]

3 minutes ago, curtains said:

With his budget at Derby. 

Clough did the best and signed decent players .

You can't compare the budgets until McClaren gets a season under the same constraints. 

McClaren also got that team to 3rd, showing Clough's limitations. McClaren has been the best manager for us in recent history. 

[Animal is a Ram]

8 minutes ago, curtains said:

I would class success as getting to the Premier League. 

 

None 

Not what I said - but by that benchmark, Mac came the closest.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

You can't compare the budgets until McClaren gets a season under the same constraints. 

McClaren also got that team to 3rd, showing Clough's limitations. McClaren has been the best manager for us in recent history. 

Clough didn't have Money in retrospect so he did wonders for us  

Will Burton do the double over Derby I hope not but with our defending of late it could happen  

Burton are an organised team we are not defensively 

Sort it out McClaren  

 

[mrdave85]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

Clough didn't have Money in retrospect so he did wonders for us  

Will Burton do the double over Derby I hope not but with our defending of late it could happen  

 

You, yourself, defined success as "getting to the Premier League."

Clough was the furthest away from doing that out of all our recent managers, literally. Wassall got closer than Clough to doing that. 

We're a different club now, Clough did well to steady the ship but we weren't climbing the table at all. McClaren has got us to a point where we can challenge for play-offs each season. 

 

[Curtains]

4 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

You, yourself, defined success as "getting to the Premier League."

Clough was the furthest away from doing that out of all our recent managers, literally. Wassall got closer than Clough to doing that. 

We're a different club now, Clough did well to steady the ship but we weren't climbing the table at all. McClaren has got us to a point where we can challenge for play-offs each season. 

 

I was one of McClarens biggest supporters when he came to Derby with Jim Smith as his assistant but he left for Man U as he saw it as a better job  

I supported him when he came to take over from Nigel Clough. 

He got seduced by Newcastle IMO but that is pure conjecture.

He failed at Newcastle and I didn't want him back. 

What will be will be but I don't have to like what's happening at DCFC although I support the club .

[rynny]

24 minutes ago, curtains said:

Clough didn't have Money in retrospect so he did wonders for us  

Will Burton do the double over Derby I hope not but with our defending of late it could happen  

Burton are an organised team we are not defensively 

Sort it out McClaren  

 

And what exactly has McClaren spent? When we finished 3rd with "Clough's" mid table team, he added Wisdom, Dawkins, Thorne Keane and Bamford on loan, signed Dawkins for about £350k Cisse on a free and Naylor on a free. So based on transfer fees McClaren did better than Clough.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

Alpha can see no wrong in McClaren .

 

I criticised him! His tinkering has contributed to the poor results

1 hour ago, curtains said:

Twente first time round he was hopeless when he went back  

Boro fans threw their season tickets on the pitch at one time. 

He's Boro's most successful manager ever isn't he? Gave Twente their first and only league title? And they finished 6th I think on his second spell. 6th. But who cares? Why does it matter what anyone does for someone else. Does it help Vydra and Pearson? How did Neil Lennon's Scot titles go down in Bolton? Do us a favour, have a look at Paul Jewell's CV before he came to Derby. Pay special attention to the Wigan and Bradford bits.

50 minutes ago, curtains said:

I would class success as getting to the Premier League. 

Well I class success as winning a European cup so Brian Clough is a failure at Derby. Or I class it as coming top 5 in the PL. Sorry Jim Smith. Is that the measure of success for all Championship teams?

See, you call the most successful manager recently Nigel Clough. Who never won more games than he lost in a season. You say it's because he had no money. How much did we spend to get to that Play Off Final? And then in the summer? So how much has Mac spent? Don't get me wrong, I like Nigel but Mac improved us. That's a fact you'll have to live with. It happened. 

You then say you wanted Warburton or Rowett. Did they, by your standards, not fail while in this division? If success is the Premier League then Rowett and Warburton are failures. Brentford were smashed in their play off semi final. 

What you've done is taken Derby, a team that's only spent 1 season in the top flight for over a decade (and got 11 points) a team that has lost more games than its won since 06/07 and decided that the measure for success is promotion? Seriously? Anything else is failure?

This is the second time Mac has taken us from a losing season and into a majority winning one. Over 50% in both spells so far. Sounds rubbish? Do a history check on a few others that managed Derby in this tier. Come back to me and let me know where Mac stands.

It was Paul Clement that went buying up players. Have a look at his %

You need to bring your expectations in line with where the club is and has been for years. 

Does all this give Mac an excuse for life? No. But when he's taken us from where we were to where we are you should probably give him some credit. 

 

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I criticised him! His tinkering has contributed to the poor results

He's Boro's most successful manager ever isn't he? Gave Twente their first and only league title? And they finished 6th I think on his second spell. 6th. But who cares? Why does it matter what anyone does for someone else. Does it help Vydra and Pearson? How did Neil Lennon's Scot titles go down in Bolton? Do us a favour, have a look at Paul Jewell's CV before he came to Derby. Pay special attention to the Wigan and Bradford bits.

Well I class success as winning a European cup so Brian Clough is a failure. Or I class it as coming top 5 in the PL. Sorry Jim Smith. Is that the measure of success for all Championship teams?

See, you call the most successful manager recently Nigel Clough. Who never won more games than he lost in a season. You say it's because he had no money. How much did we spend to get to that Play Off Final? And then in the summer? So how much has Mac spent? Don't get me wrong, I like Nigel but Mac improved us. That's a fact you'll have to live with. It happened. 

You then say you wanted Warburton or Rowett. Did they, by your standards, not fail while in this division? If success is the Premier League then Rowett and Warburton are failures. Brentford were smashed in their play off semi final. 

What you've done is taken Derby, a team that's only spent 1 season in the top flight for over a decade (and got 11 points) a team that has lost more games than its won since 06/07 and decided that the measure for success is promotion? Seriously? Anything else is failure?

This is the second time Mac has taken us from a losing season and into a majority winning one. Over 50% in both spells so far. Sounds rubbish? Do a history check on a few others that managed Derby in this tier. Come back to me and let me know where Mac stands.

It was Paul Clement that went buying up players. Have a look at his %

You need to bring your expectations in line with where the club is and has been for years. 

Does all this give Mac an excuse for life? No. But when he's taken us from where we were to where we are you should probably give him some credit. 

 

I still don't think McClaren will be the answer 2nd time around but you have an opinion and so do I. 

Got to go out mate so had to be short and sweet. 

Take care. 

[Animal is a Ram]

3 minutes ago, rynny said:

And what exactly has McClaren spent? When we finished 3rd with "Clough's" mid table team, he added Wisdom, Dawkins, Thorne Keane and Bamford on loan, signed Dawkins for about £350k Cisse on a free and Naylor on a free. So based on transfer fees McClaren did better than Clough.

Thorne, Albentosa, Shotton, Whitbread, Christie - all permanent, about £4-5m

Butland, Ibe, Lingard, Mascarell, Best, Ince, Bent - all loans.

More hits, than misses, I'd say. Even some of the misses were average at worst - didn't improve us much, but neither did they weaken us. We even made a profit on Albentosa and Shotton!

[Rampant]

Excellent OP. We aren't quite good enough and obviously need a good summer window. Some tough calls to make but it's enjoyable going into each season feeling 100% confident that we will be in the top half at the end of it. Sooner or later we'll find that extra 10% and get promoted. 

[Mafiabob]

Top post @Alpha 

Just think you see a lot of steam being let off as always after a bitterly disappointing night..... myself included I admit.

Just think my point of panicking this time last season is critical to where we are now. Perhaps yep, Clements job was untenable because of apparent "behind the scenes" shenanigans going off. If that's the case then fair enough..... I look at raw results.... it was a blip we had...... but 5 points off top.... 

Compare to now..... 8 off play offs one year on. With a bloated squad, one of these players our record signing..... not even in the 18.

I was shocked to see Mac come back and to be honest felt it wasn't the right move to bring him back.... and I think everyone knows how much I defended him when he got chopped first time around thinking it was a massive mistake then. Thought it was careful what you wish for.

However, I do not want him to go. He deserves to start next season as Derby County manager. He needs to be the one to really sort this squad out. Make no bones about it, it really is a massive summer for this club now. 

I was totally wrong about Pearson, thought he'd be the man to get our lot going again.... I thought wrong, but even his sacking wasn't results based really was it? As we are led to believe.

I really do fear though..... we react again and Mac goes and they'll be someone new in next season, because let's face it..... we have form don't we. That'll be a massive mistake this club will make. 

Just feels that after all the managerial changes we've had in last couple of years has finally caught up with us. There's no continuity off the pitch....

We can't keep chopping and changing..... people know my criticisms of Mr Morris run deep..... but I really DO HOPE he gets it right..... because this has happened under his helm. 

Nothing will make me more happy than for him to get it right for this club, there's a difference though between wanting to get it right..... and getting it right. Something we are lacking.

So what happens in summer if we are not in play offs? 

Like I say, absolutely pivotal time for this club then. Wave goodbye to the stars of our club..... Ince,Hughes et al..... obviously me trying to be a mind reader.... but monies raised here should be used wisely......

Just my two penneth..... frustrated, still want us to perform the way we can..... on and off the pitch. 

 

[Van der MoodHoover]

29 minutes ago, Mafiabob said:

Top post @Alpha 

Just think you see a lot of steam being let off as always after a bitterly disappointing night..... myself included I admit.

Just think my point of panicking this time last season is critical to where we are now. Perhaps yep, Clements job was untenable because of apparent "behind the scenes" shenanigans going off. If that's the case then fair enough..... I look at raw results.... it was a blip we had...... but 5 points off top.... 

Compare to now..... 8 off play offs one year on. With a bloated squad, one of these players our record signing..... not even in the 18.

I was shocked to see Mac come back and to be honest felt it wasn't the right move to bring him back.... and I think everyone knows how much I defended him when he got chopped first time around thinking it was a massive mistake then. Thought it was careful what you wish for.

However, I do not want him to go. He deserves to start next season as Derby County manager. He needs to be the one to really sort this squad out. Make no bones about it, it really is a massive summer for this club now. 

I was totally wrong about Pearson, thought he'd be the man to get our lot going again.... I thought wrong, but even his sacking wasn't results based really was it? As we are led to believe.

I really do fear though..... we react again and Mac goes and they'll be someone new in next season, because let's face it..... we have form don't we. That'll be a massive mistake this club will make. 

Just feels that after all the managerial changes we've had in last couple of years has finally caught up with us. There's no continuity off the pitch....

We can't keep chopping and changing..... people know my criticisms of Mr Morris run deep..... but I really DO HOPE he gets it right..... because this has happened under his helm. 

Nothing will make me more happy than for him to get it right for this club, there's a difference though between wanting to get it right..... and getting it right. Something we are lacking.

So what happens in summer if we are not in play offs? 

Like I say, absolutely pivotal time for this club then. Wave goodbye to the stars of our club..... Ince,Hughes et al..... obviously me trying to be a mind reader.... but monies raised here should be used wisely......

Just my two penneth..... frustrated, still want us to perform the way we can..... on and off the pitch. 

 

Equally good post. Fwiw I took the loaning out of weimann to be the start of a process to move players on where we can.

I'm a bit concerned where this seasons spending plus new deals are going to put us relative to the FFP ceiling. We may not have much room for manoeuvre if we don't get any offers for some of the misfits and as another poster stated, paying up contracts makes things worse.

Sorry for long winded note but I think whilst it's a hugely important summer it may turn out not to have too much transfer activity. 

Interesting times tho.

[Patrick Rams]

I'm utterly convinced we'll never get promoted with McCLaren as manager.His style of management is the exact opposite of what's needed in this division to be successful.Look at Boro and Burnley last season..Two 'steady Eddie' types at the helm is what is needed over a 46 match campaign.Just what McCLaren isn't.His past record tells you this.Boro, England, Newcastle,Derby two years ago.Lots of highs..Long unbeaten runs..Tight defence not conceding goals.Then the total opposite.Shipping goals aplenty and can't buy a win.Its been like that for McCLarens teams wherever he's been at.High scoring games are all well and good for excitement granted but the results are completely unpredictable.At 3-3 last night I was certain there would be another goal scored.Who by? No idea! The results are entirely 50/50 which will over a season will just leave you around mid- table.                                   As well as McCLarens well known habit of bottling it when it really matters.England v Croatia anyone? A measly home draw needed to qualify for the Euro finals... Alas 2-3! Wally with the brolley and all that.Derby v QPR? We were highest scorers in the division yet couldn't find just one against a team dead on their feet who had ten men for 35 minutes.

No the more I look at it the more I come to the conclusion we've no chance of the Premier League whilst Mac is in charge.Exciting football..Loads of goals.. Highs and Lows..Yes all of these.But Promotion? Sadly no.

[europia]

Expectations were raised  when Mel took over as chairman, indicating his objective to get DCFC into the premier league. Some supporters have interpreted that as 'we are heading for a return to the PL'. Those folks are now a bit frustrated, hence the so called 'Drama Queen' response. 

Since the spending started, pundits comment on the depth of our squad and wily opposition managers like Warnock use our expensively assembled team to their psychological advantage.

The reality is we have a slightly impatient chairman who has already got through a few managerial changes, we have some talented individuals, but not a top six team, and a manager with experience at both ends of the success/failure spectrum. As thing stand that all equates to our current league position, and as we all know, the league table doesn't lie.....

[Angry Ram]

I get the OP 100% and the points made. However, questions should be asked about two poor performances. I did not go last night, so won't comment on that game but I was there on Saturday and it was woeful. No the season is not over yet, we still play till May but why should we as fans not have our say? Why can't we show our displeasure after the game and send the club a message? Why is that so wrong? Are they really 'Drama Queens'? When we were winning games, some where so over the top the other way it was a bit cringy as well. What is the opposite to a Drama Queen? We have plenty of them as well.

We have two ends of the spectrum here, the glass is either completely empty or completely full it seems. We as a club continue to make mistakes on and off the field. Why of all places on a football forum can people not have their say? Curtains has a view, nothing wrong with that. Others have a completely different view, nothing wrong with that either.

Those last two results have been poor. I have my views on SM dropping players for these 3 big fixtures coming up.. That has backfired again on him in spectacular fashion. What do we do.. Not talk about the Elephant in the room?