Drama Queens

[Alph]

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never won more than we lost since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

[mrdave85]

Damn it Alpha, I've been trying to stay composed long enough to say something along these lines but kept getting too wound up and deleting it!

Can't give you enough likes! 

[Tamworthram]

2 minutes ago, Alpha said:

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never lost more than we won since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

Way too long to read but, after a quick scan, I'm pretty sure I agree. 

[G STAR RAM]

You missed Vydra leaving the ground early, major factor in us losing last night.

Took some serious restraint not to have a full out rant at a few posters last night.

It's funny because they are so angry because they had us pencilled in for 9 points from 3 games, yet then tell us how poor we are....Well why would you be expecting us to win all 3 games then?!

[Alph]

2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

Damn it Alpha, I've been trying to stay composed long enough to say something along these lines but kept getting too wound up and deleting it!

Can't give you enough likes! 

For once I read something before pressing submit. Otherwise I end up ranting and talking at people instead of to them. 

2 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

Way too long to read but, after a quick scan, I'm pretty sure I agree. 

I tried to keep it short but like an Alex Pearce pass it's gone too long

[Jimbo Ram]

27 minutes ago, Alpha said:

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never lost more than we won since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

Well put. I was pi*sed off for about half an hour after the game and then watched the news and all the awful things that are going on around the world and came back down to earth and reality. We were facing a relegation battle under Pearson and now have lost our first home game in months to an injury time penalty. Let's get players back fit and give it all to the end of the season and enjoy the ride....

[JoetheRam]

Couldn't agree more.

It's the people saying we've bottled it again that get my goat.

We've been in the top six for what? Two weeks of the season? And that was after we'd gone unbeaten in 10. Play-offs after the start we made would be a bonus. I don't know the maths but we'd have to have had something like automatic promotion form since McClaren took over. We're not as good as the top two so this was going to take a miracle. We've easily had play-off form since he took over though so I don't know what more he can do without changing the personel available and for that Derby fans will have to do what they are not good at and show some patience.

 

[Dava75]

Just watched the highlights again and got wound up.......but I can't dispute the overall theme in your note Alpha. Emotions run high after every game - win or lose - and late drama always accentuates the level of joy/pain. 

Ps. Thanks for making my daily commute to London pass by a little quicker - in fact I've just passed Wembley on the train - and having been so close, its getting further in the distance........oh the irony!!!  

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

Bang on. It's the "we will never go up with Keogh as captain" line which is particularly brainless. Like he can account for the actions of everyone else.

The last two games have been unacceptable but lets get a sense of perspective shall we. The last time we played Cardiff we were just outside the relegation zone with 1 win out of 8-9 games.

[ColonelBlimp]

Well said @Alpha 

Can't add anything to it so let it stand as a fine piece of work which should be required reading for all of those who go into meltdown at the slightest thing.

 

 

[tomsdubs]

I agree. My extra irritation is how much people scapegoat our best players then praise Pearce who has been woeful for his last few games and cost us plenty of goals. Don't get our fan base sometimes. Also shouting 'you don't know what you're doing' at the ref screaming, shouting and booing when he stopped the game for a head injury. Are people retarded? Not sure why people are coming out saying the fans are brilliant because the atmosphere has been dead and all we do is slag off our best performers and blame them for everything.

I've given up battling peoples bullshit scapegoating and complete lack of understanding of football in general. My main issues are with Mel and the rash decisions at the club since he arrived, don't get me started on the recruitment revolving door either. His heart may be in the right place but there is no cohesion or vision at the club, the players we signed aren't ambitious players on their way up. Every signing we've made has made us worse than the original playoff final team.

[Mr Tibbs]

Just been a bad week for me. I'll get over it. 

I wouldnt be that bothered but we pissed away a good chance in the FA cup for no reason. That's the only annoying thing for me. I'm all for resting players but they've literally not turned up the last two games so what's the ******* point? Play your best team every week. We're a nobody in this league so why play the ***** team? Mind boggling.

Bad decision taken by the management team, they need to get the next few right or we'll end up bottom half. Plenty of teams better than us now. 

[mrdave85]

Just now, Mr Tibbs said:

Just been a bad week for me. I'll get over it. 

I wouldnt be that bothered but we pissed away a good chance in the FA cup for no reason. That's the only annoying thing for me. I'm all for resting players but they've literally not turned up the last two games so what's the ******* point? Play your best team every week. We're a nobody in this league so why play the ***** team? Mind boggling.

Bad decision taken by the management team, they need to get the next few right or we'll end up bottom half. Plenty of teams better than us now. 

What would be so wrong with that? Brighton finished 20th in the 2014-15 season, look where they are a few seasons later. 

[SouthStandRamma]

Shows that money can't win football. Give me the playoff final team over this team any day.

[Inglorius]

You forgot to mention the expectations that once Chris Martin is back then suddenly we will become world beaters. Maybe McClaren does have a Plan B, unfortunately the timescales to execute are in months not minutes on a football field.  

[Warren Hobhead]

The chopping and changing (some of it enforced, admittedly) has derailed us in my opinion. We looked a very solid if uninspiring side a few weeks back. We now look great in bursts and appallingly weak in others. 

 

This summer will be interesting.

[uttoxram75]

Good post Alpha.

You missed the one thing though that really could change everything.

Johnny Russell.

with him we look a closer knit unit, he helps defensively and also helps to stop attacks building in the first place (sometimes our own tbf...)

He tucks in and is an extra midfielder when needed making the team a bit more solid and harder to break down.

 

 

[Angry Ram]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

First off I'm not going to pretend everything is acceptable. I did my fair share of name calling after the Bristol game. It's not acceptable to turn up to a game half asleep and wait for everyone else to invite you to play. 

Equally against Cardiff it's not acceptable to play for 30 minutes. And we did play. Complete control, good pace, lots of variation, used both flanks, long, short and down their throat. But then we get a 2-0 lead and start playing head tennis? Start lifting the ball into the air for our giants to head on? Every bouncing ball is treated like a grenade? No, I don't think that's ok.

And I don't mind the retreat, get in shape, safety in numbers counter attacking style of defending. But ffs if the ball is there to be won then go win it. Surely we don't have to wait until it's on our goal line to put in a proper tackle? 

But some of the routine meltdown comments are just pure repetitive ********. Some of them..

"This team has bottled it for 3 years" - right, is this the same team we've had for 3 years? Is it the same management team? The same owner? The same recruitment team? No. No its not. And technically we've been bottling it since 1975 along with about 60+ other English league clubs every season. 

"We've got no plan B." - Name some teams that do something different to us because we havent played 433 for all of the last few games. Name some successful teams that chop and change systems every other week? How did having different formations for different opponents work for Clement and Pearson? If Plan A was going through Chris Martin then what are we doing now? 

"We'll never win anything with Keogh" - 1 player holds back an entire squad? The points separating us from Newcastle are mostly down to Keogh? Shackell and Pearce would be better? Would the ball ever move if those two played CB? How many goals do you actually fully blame Keogh for? When you're fault finding do you trace it back to earlier errors or just the last one before the goal? Because in football you defend from the front and attack from the back. 

"McClaren is just not good enough" - Well he has a pretty decent record at Derby. 27 defeats and 63 wins in 118 games. Above a 50% win ratio. His first time here he joined when we'd never lost more than we won since 2006/07. This time? Well you'd have not demanded top 6 from him would you? So he's not been too bad for us has he? 

"Will Hughes is overrated." - from the people that said "get rid, I'll drive him to Burnley myself" about the useless Jeff Hendrick. What do you want from your 21 year old midfielders now? He's a support player. The go to guy. The guy who assists the assist and tenacious tackling and work rate goes unnoticed until he's missing. Then you reach for the tissues. 

"The team is just not good enough" - So why the dramatics? What is "good enough"? Have you watched Derby play a lot of "good enough" football since Phil Collins released his first number 1? Get some context about where we are in the football world. "My God we're lower than Barnsley and Preston". So? Wigan spent 9 years in the PL. Fulham spent what? 12? Wake up. Derby are not a "sleeping giant." Football is not based on how many people you can get to boo in a ground. This is the level we are. I'm not saying you should be happy with it but you should be bringing your expectations in line with it. 

"The players don't look arsed" - I'm assuming you care about the level of service you offer in your job. Now imagine if you had worked for 20+ years to get where you are? Then imagine you have thousands of people watching you, analysing you every week. Newspapers, TV shows covering your performance. Then imagine that at the end of your 3 contract you could be facing a massive wage decrease/increase depending on how well you've done. Imagine you're just one league away from playing at the highest domestic level of football. So us lads who never made it off the park are criticising the commitment of those who are playing at the very highest level? Sound. Why aren't we footballers? Just luck? 

"Should have played 3254321 formation" - Would that have stopped Pearce pushing someone over? Sometimes, not all the time, a game is lost by players making poor decisions or the opponent being better (they are professionals too btw). How many formations have we seen in the last 5 years? I think we've seen them all. 

I'm not preaching or saying don't be angry. I'm furious. I was furious when we decided we are so good at defending in shape that we don't need to tackle. I was angry that when 1-0 down a player has the balls to play football but at 1-0 up they just want to head/kick it forward even if our team is weak in the air. Let's start lifting it in the air where we're hopeless in 6 positions. I don't understand why Mac has started tinkering so much. BJ was getting loads of praise as a DM. The midfield was BJ, Butters and Hughes. That was the team. When they're fit then... maybe? No? Ooookaay

I'm not telling you to rate Keogh or slate Vydra. If you think they're ***** or great then that's cool. But c'mon, the OTT statements. 

I agree we aren't good enough for the target we have but there is more likely several different reasons. A mix of players not fitting the system, the system not being followed, the tactics being a bit off, players not good enough etc etc. 

But the whole rip it up and start again meltdown is a bit much. Chill your beans. It's very fitting with the mock outrage world we live in. You can't not like something... it's the worst thing ever and I demand compensation and an apology. 

Chill.

This isn't meant to be a rant telling people how to support Derby. Just trying to get some posters to try reasoning things out a bit. There's a lot of clubs that win naff all every year. Only 3 teams will get promoted in May. The rest will be just like Derby. Let's not all clubs commit suicide or Millwall will have to step up to the 2nd tier again. 

I did not make the list of shame.. 

Good post by the way.. We do over react a tad. 

[Curtains]

Why when someone makes a massive post like this does it get McClaren off the hook. 

[ariotofmyown]

1 minute ago, curtains said:

Why when someone makes a massive post like this does it get McClaren off the hook. 

Because it's well thought out and makes good points with reasons given for the opinions.