The Reality

[Pearson]

On 03/03/2017 at 19:25, Pearson said:

No worries.

Right, I will agree he is elegant on the ball and a neat passer but that’s it for me at this level.

He body position when making a tackle is poor, he is easily knocked off the ball, lacks aerial guile and for a mid-fielder his goal return is poor.

Unfortunately his passing ability and elegant demeanour are not enough to warrant a start in every game. In saying that, perhaps even McClaren is beginning to realise his limitations with three with drawls in the last four games.

Game after game we are being repeatedly over run in mid field and I’m afraid he is one of the main culprits in allowing this to happen. This didnt happen when the sorely missed Hendricks was in there, he had what you call “presence” which WH does not have.

Fine, you obviously think to the contrary, but I do feel a couple of games on the bench and the selection of a mid field with more bite and presence will serve us better. But with McClaren.....

But with McLaren and our Will....., can you now see the point I was making?

At long last, variation from him in the selection of a mid-field that dominated and created numerous chances, especially in the 2nd half when we became accustomed to the formation. Hasten to add the removal of De sart only served to further improve this.

My only disappointment is that it has taken McClaren so long to realise this. But, on the positive side at least he has woken up to it and if he can continue to demonstrate in future matches that he has the tactical vision required, why, he might even win me over!

A long. long way to go on that score though.

[Pearson]

On 02/03/2017 at 21:36, Pearson said:

Will Hughes is one of the reasons we are going backwards. If you cant see that, well.......

 

On 03/03/2017 at 11:09, MuespachRam said:

Get this saved somewhere @David as the "post of the century"...

Well despite the riducle, and now a couple of months down the line, are you anyway nearer accepting my point?

Even McClaren prior to his departure saw it and Rowett obviously sees it. I have nothing against Hughes and I'm sure he will prove to be a good squad player but he is not the player a lot of supporters believe he is.

I stated at the time that we should have signed Irvine from Burton in the January window. He has a far better all round game that Hughes, and had we signed him, again opinions, but I honestly believe we would now be in the play-offs. He improves leaps and bounds each week and I would love to have him on board for next seasons push.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Just now, Pearson said:

 

Well despite the riducle, and now a couple of months down the line, are you anyway nearer accepting my point?

Even McClaren prior to his departure saw it and Rowett obviously sees it. I have nothing against Hughes and I'm sure he will prove to be a good squad player but he is not the player a lot of supporters believe he is.

I stated at the time that we should have signed Irvine from Burton in the January window. He has a far better all round game that Hughes, and had we signed him, again opinions, but I honestly believe we would now be in the play-offs. He improves leaps and bounds each week and I would love to have him on board for next seasons push.

What was the context behind your point? In terms of the reasons why you saw will hughes as so problematic and why Irvine is the answer?

Apologies if this is rehashing history but as a hughes admirer of previous seasons I do see that he has been quite ineffective since at least he picked up the knock against Leicester. 

[MuespachRam]

1 hour ago, Pearson said:

 

Well despite the riducle, and now a couple of months down the line, are you anyway nearer accepting my point?

Even McClaren prior to his departure saw it and Rowett obviously sees it. I have nothing against Hughes and I'm sure he will prove to be a good squad player but he is not the player a lot of supporters believe he is.

I stated at the time that we should have signed Irvine from Burton in the January window. He has a far better all round game that Hughes, and had we signed him, again opinions, but I honestly believe we would now be in the play-offs. He improves leaps and bounds each week and I would love to have him on board for next seasons push.

actually....you have just beaten your "most ridiculous post of the century" right there.

Hughes is the best player we have got at the club, bar none, by a country mile, he is arguably the best player in the league and the best player we have had in 20+ years.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

8 minutes ago, MuespachRam said:

actually....you have just beaten your "most ridiculous post of the century" right there.

Hughes is the best player we have got at the club, bar none, by a country mile, he is arguably the best player in the league and the best player we have had in 20+ years.

And yet he he's been benched by all 3 of this season's permanent managers? I would argue that on his day, he is the best player in the team but that day doesn't seem to come too often at the minute. Don't get me wrong, I love Hughes, but I am starting to doubt whether he will ever truly kick on. I feel like he would do if he played at a higher level with better players, but no Premier League team would want him based on his recent performances. There's certainly a case for saying he's the most naturally gifted player in the squad, but his performances this season (Leicester and Forest aside) certainly suggest that he's overrated by a lot of our fanbase. I know some say he's still not fully fit, but I don't buy that at all. He's had nearly a year now.

P.S. Please don't hate me for this. I love Will just as much as anyone else and I'd love to see him lead Derby to glory, I just feel like he wouldn't get the same fanatical following if he was a 27 year old, 500k signing from Stoke's reserves. 

[TommyPowell]

35 minutes ago, BurtonRam7 said:

And yet he he's been benched by all 3 of this season's permanent managers? I would argue that on his day, he is the best player in the team but that day doesn't seem to come too often at the minute. Don't get me wrong, I love Hughes, but I am starting to doubt whether he will ever truly kick on. I feel like he would do if he played at a higher level with better players, but no Premier League team would want him based on his recent performances. There's certainly a case for saying he's the most naturally gifted player in the squad, but his performances this season (Leicester and Forest aside) certainly suggest that he's overrated by a lot of our fanbase. I know some say he's still not fully fit, but I don't buy that at all. He's had nearly a year now.

P.S. Please don't hate me for this. I love Will just as much as anyone else and I'd love to see him lead Derby to glory, I just feel like he wouldn't get the same fanatical following if he was a 27 year old, 500k signing from Stoke's reserves. 

A)  he isnt 27

B)wherer can you buy a player of 27 with Willsd ability for £500C

 

[Sith Happens]

8 hours ago, Pearson said:

 

Well despite the riducle, and now a couple of months down the line, are you anyway nearer accepting my point?

Even McClaren prior to his departure saw it and Rowett obviously sees it. I have nothing against Hughes and I'm sure he will prove to be a good squad player but he is not the player a lot of supporters believe he is.

I stated at the time that we should have signed Irvine from Burton in the January window. He has a far better all round game that Hughes, and had we signed him, again opinions, but I honestly believe we would now be in the play-offs. He improves leaps and bounds each week and I would love to have him on board for next seasons push.

I think after our very bizarre season its too early to be gloating about your point being proven.

I would suggest next season might be the time to shout about point being proven.

Hughes may move on, if he stays I personally think he will get back into the team. The role he has been asked to play this season isn't one we are used to seeing him in. The lack of a proper DCM has seen Hughes playing far deeper than normal.

On Irvine he has no doubt been an excellent buy for Burton, I hear good things about him and I would be surprised if he's at Burton next season. Personally the very few occasions I have seen him play I haven't been wowed but Burtons style of play may be a factor in that.

As I said this has been such a bizarre season, I can hardly judge any player. You may be right about it, too soon to know yet.

[deanoakaram4life]

Another issue is that Hughes is one of if not the highest earners at the club. If he's going to be benched then we may as well try and get the best price for him. 

[Alph]

So at 21 with over 150 games under his belt, the same amount of U21 internationals as Ruben Loftus Cheek (who people spunk over) he's captained the side the other week, is the second youngest player to debut for the U21's and lets not forget he had one season out injured... he's finally hit some poor form 

If he doesn't turn it around soon he could be written off like Jeff Hendrick. 

[Warren Hobhead]

8 hours ago, MuespachRam said:

actually....you have just beaten your "most ridiculous post of the century" right there.

Hughes is the best player we have got at the club, bar none, by a country mile, he is arguably the best player in the league and the best player we have had in 20+ years.

Posts like this are as bad as those writing him off as average.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

35 minutes ago, Alpha said:

So at 21 with over 150 games under his belt, the same amount of U21 internationals as Ruben Loftus Cheek (who people spunk over) he's captained the side the other week, is the second youngest player to debut for the U21's and lets not forget he had one season out injured... he's finally hit some poor form 

If he doesn't turn it around soon he could be written off like Jeff Hendrick. 

He's done really well, don't get me wrong. However, I just feel like he's never been as good as, or lived up to, the hype that Derby fans give him. I had really high hopes when he came back from his injury last season, as he started to dominate games, but he hasn't really picked up from that this season. I'm struggling to see where he's really improved since he was 16; he hasn't started to control games, he doesn't score more goals, he doesn't get more assists and he hasn't really improved his physicality. The only thing I can think of that he's improved is his timing of the tackle.

He's a very good footballer, but I just find it difficult to keep on telling everyone how great he is based on his performances all season, at an age when you would expect him to start picking his game up. Sadly, I just feel like the only way he will improve is by playing for a better team than us.

He's one of my favourite players and I hope Rowett gives him more playing time, but I just feel like he could do a lot more than he does currently. Hopefully I'm proven horribly wrong and Gary gets him running the show next season as we storm the league. Nothing would make me happier (except a fully fit George Thorne dominating games).

[RadioactiveWaste]

Hughes is never going to be a dominant midfielder. I just dont see that happening. I think if you're pining for him to become one you are going to be disappointed.

However, if you want him to be silky passing creative influence, there isn't anyone better.

I'm also convinced he's not been fully fit since that injury.

[Spanish]

as we see with Hendrick, better players play better in better sides.  I still expect him to become a very good player in the right side, whether that is us we shall have to see

[Alph]

What do you call controlling games?

He can't control the ball for 11 people. 

He's a support player. A "Xavi". A go to guy. When he's on the pitch he makes himself available and he always makes the right pass at the right time, not to the nearest or easiest white shirt, but to the white shirt that's in the best position. 

Basically when the ball leaves his foot he says "there you go, now you've got time to do your thing"

When he plays we control the flow of the game more. But he's only one man.

Recently he's struggled a bit at times. Struggled to find the best passes quickly, he's been caught in possession too much. He's out of form, out of sync and looks slow. But that's form. 

To see Hughes dictate more, to orchestrate more then put him in a team where more players are like him. 

Usually if we aren't controlling games and Hughes is playing it's because Shackell and Pearce like to invite every man and his dog to press us in. Or because Olsson or Pearce hoof it away or Bryson refuses to turn on the ball or Bent is marking the opposition keeper, or Russell was caught flat footed or Butters has refused an open goal so he can pass to someone stood next to him. 

Very rarely does Hughes contribute to us getting bogged down or losing possession.

I can't believe so many people are questioning his ability. 

He's just out of form. 

[toddy]

6 minutes ago, Alpha said:

What do you call controlling games?

He can't control the ball for 11 people. 

He's a support player. A "Xavi". A go to guy. When he's on the pitch he makes himself available and he always makes the right pass at the right time, not to the nearest or easiest white shirt, but to the white shirt that's in the best position. 

Basically when the ball leaves his foot he says "there you go, now you've got time to do your thing"

When he plays we control the flow of the game more. But he's only one man.

Recently he's struggled a bit at times. Struggled to find the best passes quickly, he's been caught in possession too much. He's out of form, out of sync and looks slow. But that's form. 

To see Hughes dictate more, to orchestrate more then put him in a team where more players are like him. 

Usually if we aren't controlling games and Hughes is playing it's because Shackell and Pearce like to invite every man and his dog to press us in. Or because Olsson or Pearce hoof it away or Bryson refuses to turn on the ball or Bent is marking the opposition keeper, or Russell was caught flat footed or Butters has refused an open goal so he can pass to someone stood next to him. 

Very rarely does Hughes contribute to us getting bogged down or losing possession.

I can't believe so many people are questioning his ability. 

He's just out of form. 

Completely agree.

Every player goes through a bad spell -how can anybody question Will's ability?

[Mr Tibbs]

23 minutes ago, toddy said:

Completely agree.

Every player goes through a bad spell -how can anybody question Will's ability?

A. Because we're all on a forum where we discuss things where opinions differ. 

B. He's had a poor season by his standards.

C. Players who clearly have less talent than Will are getting infront of him week in week out, over a whole season where the three managers we have had all have left him out. 

 

Apologies for the pedantic post but why should Will Hughes be free from criticism? There's plenty of players who have had it in the neck on this forum for the "failings" of our team and Will shouldn't be exempt either, he's one of the originals. Nobody is saying he's a terrible player, from what I've seen all the criticism has been backed up by pretty decent points. You can argue the opposite with just as good points but the fact there are now seeds of doubt setting in speaks volumes IMO. 

I really hope this season is a one off, whether it be poor form, injury, the uncertainty of which manager will be here next week, the over kill we have in his position or the way we have attempted to play this year. Nobody really knows from the information available yet a lot of excuses are made for him, they're unwarranted for me. 

 

[Mr Tibbs]

1 hour ago, Alpha said:

What do you call controlling games?

He can't control the ball for 11 people. 

He's a support player. A "Xavi". A go to guy. When he's on the pitch he makes himself available and he always makes the right pass at the right time, not to the nearest or easiest white shirt, but to the white shirt that's in the best position. 

Basically when the ball leaves his foot he says "there you go, now you've got time to do your thing"

When he plays we control the flow of the game more. But he's only one man.

Recently he's struggled a bit at times. Struggled to find the best passes quickly, he's been caught in possession too much. He's out of form, out of sync and looks slow. But that's form. 

To see Hughes dictate more, to orchestrate more then put him in a team where more players are like him. 

Usually if we aren't controlling games and Hughes is playing it's because Shackell and Pearce like to invite every man and his dog to press us in. Or because Olsson or Pearce hoof it away or Bryson refuses to turn on the ball or Bent is marking the opposition keeper, or Russell was caught flat footed or Butters has refused an open goal so he can pass to someone stood next to him. 

Very rarely does Hughes contribute to us getting bogged down or losing possession.

I can't believe so many people are questioning his ability. 

He's just out of form. 

Interesting question for you here then Alpha, as I agree with what you're saying his best bits are, do we - Derby County in the Championship - need a player like Will Hughes? I'm not saying we don't but the current theme from your post and most Derby fans' thoughts are he's better than every player around him, some even reckon he's the best in this division. Is his ability not brought out as much due to playing with average Championship players? 

On the flip side of that as a team, are we just over-complicating things with him in the side? Do we need someone to knit play together and orchestrate things? Do we need a Xavi or is it as simple as our current set up with BJ/Bryso providing the different attributes required. 

I was a big critic of Jeff before he left for Burnley, he was a 1 in 4 man where he'd turn up but seems to have gone to that next level in the PL and that's just playing with Burnley. If Hughes was to go to a possession based team in the top 8 and play regularly I imagine he'd hit that next level that he's failing to get to here. I don't think we can take his progression for granted as we once did, since his arrival in first team football there have been younger and better English prospects who have made that step up and are performing in at the highest level. He's still got time on his side but he's 22 next week, I just want him to push on but I'm just not seeing it at the moment.

The ability is there, let's just see it on a consistent basis and that is what everybody is pulling him up for. 

 

[DEL]

59 minutes ago, Mr Tibbs said:

Interesting question for you here then Alpha, as I agree with what you're saying his best bits are, do we - Derby County in the Championship - need a player like Will Hughes? I'm not saying we don't but the current theme from your post and most Derby fans' thoughts are he's better than every player around him, some even reckon he's the best in this division. Is his ability not brought out as much due to playing with average Championship players? 

On the flip side of that as a team, are we just over-complicating things with him in the side? Do we need someone to knit play together and orchestrate things? Do we need a Xavi or is it as simple as our current set up with BJ/Bryso providing the different attributes required. 

I was a big critic of Jeff before he left for Burnley, he was a 1 in 4 man where he'd turn up but seems to have gone to that next level in the PL and that's just playing with Burnley. If Hughes was to go to a possession based team in the top 8 and play regularly I imagine he'd hit that next level that he's failing to get to here. I don't think we can take his progression for granted as we once did, since his arrival in first team football there have been younger and better English prospects who have made that step up and are performing in at the highest level. He's still got time on his side but he's 22 next week, I just want him to push on but I'm just not seeing it at the moment.

The ability is there, let's just see it on a consistent basis and that is what everybody is pulling him up for. 

 

He's already 22. 

[Mr Tibbs]

5 minutes ago, Derby_EnglandLoyal said:

He's already 22. 

Wiki is wrong then, who'd have thought it. 

[DarkFruitsRam7]

2 hours ago, toddy said:

How can anybody question Will's ability?

I'm not questioning his ability at all, I'm questioning his consistency, influence on games and progression. I've said he's probably the most talented player in our squad and I love him to bits, but I'm starting to think that he'll never kick on whilst he remains a Derby player. @Mr Tibbs makes a good point, it seems the vast majority of our squad are open to being slated but that changes when it comes to Hughes. @Alpha is coming out with some valid arguments but, again, I do think some are blinded by the fact that he came from the academy and was a regular from such a young age.

Oh, and I would ask a similar question; how can anybody question Chris Martin's ability?