BobbyD Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, Ninos said: I will say this - when we first got Butterfield he was DIRE (as opposed to instant sensation Brad - but then after a run in the side he got better and scored for fun. Since his return he's done next to nothing and can't hit a donkeys backside with the proverbial banjo, but maybe if we keep trotting him out he will come good: if he can be the motm tomorrow with the winning goal I'll be delighted - but for now I'd rather he not shoot as nothing is ontarget. Regardless, If hughes and Johnson play great tomorrow this game is already over. Incredibly harsh He's clearly an exceptional player but one of those who needs a little love His form has been excellent since he has had a run in the team and its only through bad luck he hasn't been on the scoresheet (Wolves away ?) He links up play really well and, nowadays, is always looking to get forward If we keep dissing players like this, do you think that will make them better or worse players ? I generally agree with a lot you say Ninos, but not on this occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 25 minutes ago, Ninos said: I will say this - when we first got Butterfield he was DIRE (as opposed to instant sensation Brad - but then after a run in the side he got better and scored for fun. Since his return he's done next to nothing and can't hit a donkeys backside with the proverbial banjo, but maybe if we keep trotting him out he will come good: if he can be the motm tomorrow with the winning goal I'll be delighted - but for now I'd rather he not shoot as nothing is ontarget. Regardless, If hughes and Johnson play great tomorrow this game is already over. You're hoping he has a bad game. Your many posts tell us that much. And there be my confusion. Wanting our players to fail so that you can be seen to be right on the internet. Mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Has he signed yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OohMartWright Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 5 hours ago, Ninos said: He's not a bad player he's just mediocre The word mediocre means bad so you just contradicted yourself. Butterfield is neither of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, OohMartWright said: The word mediocre means bad so you just contradicted yourself. Butterfield is neither of the two. Mediocre means Average. From the Latin 'Mediocris' meaning medium/in the middle etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Mediocre means Average. From the Latin 'Mediocris' meaning medium/in the middle etc. Thanks google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Butterfield and Hughes are both technically very good but in different ways. Hughes has a better first touch and has more balance, whilst Butterfield has a better shot and provides passes that enable him to get it back from the 1-2. In the midfield Butterfield is the link player with the forward whilst Hughes keeps the game moving. The good thing is that both players are comfortable playing either role in the midfield and can switch roles if one of them is having a bad game, which is why I think McClaren likes having them both in the same team because it saves on having to bring a sub on.I'm glad that we have both on our team, especially when it's more important than ever to dominate the midfield, where the game is typically won or lost. It also allows Johnson to do what he is good at, being the 'destroyer' in the midfield rather than making him do what he is uncomfortable at(being the creative spark in the midfield).This has been talked about a number of times in interviews with both McClaren and Johnson. He knows he can just give it straight way to either Hughes and Butterfield and let them work their magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Tombo said: Thanks google Hey now, some of us had to learn latin at school It would be more useful if most of our words didn't evolve from Greek/Norse/Gaelic and various other languages though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I do think some people are pandering to Hughes a little bit; mistaking talent with quality. I don't think anyone can argue that he has a lot of talent. He does things at times that look completely out of place at Championship level, however, they're all too few and far apart. He's experienced enough now where he should have a greater demand on his impact. I would say that it's quite frankly nothing short of an absolute embarrassment that he hasn't scored a single goal in 18 appearances this season. I also don't think three assists in 18 is anywhere near acceptable. I do agree his all round play has been good this season, but he definitely needs to up it. I would say Sunday is a perfect opportunity for him. In fact, I would say how he performs on Sunday will say a lot about him as a player. He can't, well shouldn't, get away with making a couple of inventive passes and a big tackle. He needs to do something that ultimately ends up with the ball in the back of the goal - whether it be from his own boot or creating it for someone else. He needs to put his marker down and come away with at least a large minority suggesting he's the reason we won, he's our MOTM. As I've said previously, no Premier League side will be willing to pay in excess of £15m for a Championship midfielder who barely scores or creates anything - especially one masquerading as an attacking midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 To be fair Hughes has started 16, 11 of which under Pearson where nobody looked like scoring. Season started against Leeds pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 8 hours ago, SaintRam said: Mediocre means Average. From the Latin 'Mediocris' meaning medium/in the middle etc. Sweet! I'm gonna start saying Mediocris from now on like Pubis and Hubris so there's no confusion. He's average. If he improves I'm obviously good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 11 hours ago, BobbyD said: Incredibly harsh He's clearly an exceptional player but one of those who needs a little love His form has been excellent since he has had a run in the team and its only through bad luck he hasn't been on the scoresheet (Wolves away ?) He links up play really well and, nowadays, is always looking to get forward If we keep dissing players like this, do you think that will make them better or worse players ? I generally agree with a lot you say Ninos, but not on this occasion. Fair enough but It's interesting that on here you can't pick apart Butterfield who offers little but you can slam Keogh Christie and Johnson who are and have been truly impact players for us, especially lately. My thing with Butterfield - the primary frustration - is that I've watched him closely when he doesn't have the ball is that he doesn't open up for the ball that much and it gets progressively worse as the game progresses. Not always true, but it is a lot and I've even see Hughes flap at him to open up. I watched this a lot because it was clear under Pearson that we were very static in the middle and up front. He wasn't the only one for sure but he was a major culprit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninos Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Alpha said: Doesn't matter. He passed backward, didn't score and was crap Finally you see the light alpha and omega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Ninos said: Fair enough but It's interesting that on here you can't pick apart Butterfield who offers little but you can slam Keogh Christie and Johnson who are and have been truly impact players for us, especially lately. My thing with Butterfield - the primary frustration - is that I've watched him closely when he doesn't have the ball is that he doesn't open up for the ball that much and it gets progressively worse as the game progresses. Not always true, but it is a lot and I've even see Hughes flap at him to open up. I watched this a lot because it was clear under Pearson that we were very static in the middle and up front. He wasn't the only one for sure but he was a major culprit. He played on the wing under Pearson. So I'm not sure your point makes sense. It was Hughes and Bryson central. We were awful. But again, I put that down to poor management. Powell took over and immediately moved Butterfield central, added Johnson and went back to a three. It is not a coincidence that we were top of the league last year with both in midfield and are now flying with them both in midfield. They are exceptional midfielders at this level as their careers and transfer fees suggest. And as their statistics whilst Rams suggest too. Ive not forgotten the hammer Johnson got on here a couple of months back. And at the ground. I now see some who were part of that, now praising Johnson. That's not supporting. That's being a fickle fan. FWIW I predicted 1-0 Derby and Bryson late winner in the Forest thread. I love Bryson. Hero for us so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Ninos said: Sweet! I'm gonna start saying Mediocris from now on like Pubis and Hubris so there's no confusion. He's average. If he improves I'm obviously good with that. I'be been fully pubis since I was thirteen! EDIT: Should have gone with "You're being harsh on Hughes, he's not even fully pubis yet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 17 hours ago, RodleyRam said: A lack of joy in the player is the common denominator thus far... who else hates to smile, they're up next It applies to all walks of life nobody likes a miserable **** ,footballers are no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, King Kevin said: It applies to all walks of life nobody likes a miserable **** ,footballers are no exception. The thing is though, they're paid to make me happy and not to be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said: He played on the wing under Pearson. So I'm not sure your point makes sense. It was Hughes and Bryson central. We were awful. But again, I put that down to poor management. Powell took over and immediately moved Butterfield central, added Johnson and went back to a three. It is not a coincidence that we were top of the league last year with both in midfield and are now flying with them both in midfield. They are exceptional midfielders at this level as their careers and transfer fees suggest. And as their statistics whilst Rams suggest too. Ive not forgotten the hammer Johnson got on here a couple of months back. And at the ground. I now see some who were part of that, now praising Johnson. That's not supporting. That's being a fickle fan. FWIW I predicted 1-0 Derby and Bryson late winner in the Forest thread. I love Bryson. Hero for us so often. Is it fickle or are some fans (not those being hyper critical) just saying as it is and his game has improved? A couple of months ago he wasn't performing well but now he's one of our most important players. "Supporting" doesn't mean you need to praise a player regardless of his performance. They're big boys (on big wages) and have to accept criticism when it's due and reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Hobhead Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: Is it fickle or are some fans (not those being hyper critical) just saying as it is and his game has improved? A couple of months ago he wasn't performing well but now he's one of our most important players. "Supporting" doesn't mean you need to praise a player regardless of his performance. They're big boys (on big wages) and have to accept criticism when it's due and reasonable. I was referring to those giving him hammer. And those booing him etc at games. Saying he has had a bad game is a bit different from saying "ffs not Johnson again, get shut of him stealing a wage" and other comments with worse words used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector was the best Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 11 hours ago, Ambitious said: I 11 hours ago, Ambitious said: I do think some people are pandering to Hughes a little bit; mistaking talent with quality. I don't think anyone can argue that he has a lot of talent. He does things at times that look completely out of place at Championship level, however, they're all too few and far apart. He's experienced enough now where he should have a greater demand on his impact. I would say that it's quite frankly nothing short of an absolute embarrassment that he hasn't scored a single goal in 18 appearances this season. I also don't think three assists in 18 is anywhere near acceptable. I do agree his all round play has been good this season, but he definitely needs to up it. I would say Sunday is a perfect opportunity for him. In fact, I would say how he performs on Sunday will say a lot about him as a player. He can't, well shouldn't, get away with making a couple of inventive passes and a big tackle. He needs to do something that ultimately ends up with the ball in the back of the goal - whether it be from his own boot or creating it for someone else. He needs to put his marker down and come away with at least a large minority suggesting he's the reason we won, he's our MOTM. As I've said previously, no Premier League side will be willing to pay in excess of £15m for a Championship midfielder who barely scores or creates anything - especially one masquerading as an attacking midfielder. Seem to remember a super chip over defenders to enable bent to score that fabulous goal Please get off his back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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