Confidence issue or a rebuild required?

[Sparkle]

Confidence issue and player balance, it will take time but strength up front will help all the others

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

I think we've made some progress, we're just lacking in the final third still. Like many have already pointed out, Mac hasn't really had any time on the training ground with it being a 3 game week. Players will have a recovery day today, a full days training tomorrow and only a light session tomorrow in preparation for the game. After Saturday he gets a full week with them, hopefully Wel see a difference after that.

 

One of the main problems I see at the minute is we're missing a hold up striker, wether that be Chris Martin or anybody else that can play the roll. If we're going to play Vydra there we've at least got try and play to his strengths, he's not a striker to drop short, hold of 2 defenders and lay the ball off to approaching midfielders he wants toy get in behind. I counted 3 or 4 times last night we managed to break through a tackle in midfield and we're breaking on their back four, at this moment Vydra sets off on his run but the ball never came, our player took a touch and a mother and another turned sideways and played safe.......that could be a confidence issue or just new players not knowing each other's game yet.

 

Would have liked a win obviously, but 8 points out of the last 12 is a good turn around for us atm, need to stay unbeaten after Saturday!

[ramsbottom]

It's a combination of both.  You also need to factor in that Schteve will only have had Thursday, Friday morning & Monday morning to work with the players.  Of course some of the squad are aware of his methods but a lot of them are not.

The team that played last night won't be his ideal IX but I think he looked at the fact they'd taken 4 points from two games and decided to not upset the apple cart just yet.  Once Bryson is fully fit he'll be in the side and pushed right up in support of Vydra for one.  It's also unfortunate Lowe was injured for last night as Baird doesn't give us anything down the left, kinda like boxing with one arm...

[Animal is a Ram]

2 hours ago, TroyDyer said:

Team needs a new spine IMO. 

eh?

The spine of Keogh, Pearce, Johnson has been very effective. 1 goal conceded in 4 games.

Think its the limbs that need working on!

[europia]

6 hours ago, toddy said:

Ok, Mac has come in and some thought things would change [I did].

We have had 3 games since Pearson was removed, the performances have not really improved, the results well a win against Leeds and a draws against Reading and Brentford so sort of improved. [ It is bad when I class getting draws against Reading and Brentford as improvements]

Mac had his new manager  bounce and got a result against Leeds, but the performance wasn't great. Again last night we continued were we left off with Leeds we do look very average at the moment and promotion looks as likely now as it did under Nigel Clough.

I still hoping its a confidence issue rather than the alternative.

Do you think its a lack confidence within the squad?

 

Fair points that you make. It would soon become quite obvious that certain players are not going to perform to the required standard, irrespective of who the manager is. So it will come down to how much room Mac has to manoeuvre in the transfer market. It's going to take more than a few teaks to get this lot into the top six. I am looking to next season for that joyous event.

[cannable]

3 hours ago, TroyDyer said:

Team needs a new spine IMO. 

The only remnants of the old spine that played yesterday were Keogh and Hughes/Bryson? 

It's been given a new spine and it's worse!

[Woodley Ram]

5 hours ago, sage said:

That simply isn't enough. You have basically said 1 faster player and 1 bigger player please.

All players need to play as a team and be able to pass a ball quickly and accurately, making themselves available and being able to receive the ball in tight situations.

As soon as you have a player or two who can't or won't play like that it disrupts the whole team. Here are 3 examples.

1) Bent and Ince coming in Jan 2015. Though they scored 21 goals, both players only want the final or penultimate ball in a move. In the early to mid phase of winning then building possession you are carrying 2 players. Obviously there were other contributory factors such as a lack of a specialist DCM, but this issue was accentuated by having less possession.

2) Shackell. Shackell is a good defender, but he isn't a great passer and takes a long time to release the ball. Opposition teams started to mark Keogh and Thorne and let Shackell have the ball. Moves ground to a halt and the opposition had time to crowd Martin out. 

3) Butterfield and Johnson. They both have their qualities but they both take quite a few touches and look for wonder balls. Now they are both trying to adapt and were reasonably successful against Leeds, but we look laboured again yesterday. Can a leopard change there spots?

Out of the team that played last night I would suggest that Keogh, Hughes, Bryson, Anya and maybe Vydra are currently capable of playing this system. To think that many more will be able to adapt is very optimistic.

For those that say good players adapt. Look at Pogba at Man Utd. World's most expensive player and they have had to change their system as he couldn't play in a 442.         

That's your view Sage and might be the right one, who knows. My opinion is that we don't need a lot of changes.

the midfielder is not about speed but about power, the ability and strength to drive into the box and draw players to him. 

The forward would be hard to find and expensive to find, a Drogba type player, who has a bit of pace, lots of strength and presence, an improved version of Chris Martin. 

Thats my opinion, like I say I'm not a football manager 

i agree with the play as a team comment 

[duncanjwitham]

We just need a better balance in the forward line.  Every forward we have (including wingers) are either hanging on the last man looking for balls in behind, or waiting for the ball to come to them so they can run at defenders.  There's nobody dropping off to link play or holding up the ball.  So they're all pushing up far too much and we're getting a big gap between the midfield and the forwards, and the forwards are getting isolated and we're not getting them the service.

We just need to get someone in that can drop off and hold the ball up - whether that's Martin back in January, or someone else.  And until that happens, we're just going to have to muddle through with the mess that Pearson has left behind.

[Derbyram1983]

I care about the club but does t mean I deserve to play in this team. Our team does t play like our 13/14 and haven't recruited well enough. I'd bring through the youngsters personally Hanson, rawson, Lowe etc rather than signing any. We need to sell a fair few and just sign quality rather than quantity and bring through the youth. Luckily bents contract is up at the end of the season along with Baird. Which frees up two spaces from two players that will be on really good wages. 

[VulcanRam]

5 hours ago, sage said:

Odd that you choose to look at one game rather than the last 3 and a half seasons. 

Anya wasn't jeered off the pitch and created the best piece of the skill of the night near the end of the game. Vydra played nothing like Bent. He worked really hard but isn't suited to that position. Are you really that desperate for an argument?

I think we all know the answer to that  

[VulcanRam]

Progress will take time. 

Both the first halves against Leeds and Brentford were the same/worse than Pearson's Derby; slow, static, no apparent urgency or idea what anyone was meant to be doing.

Both second halves there were signs of improvement; against Leeds it was a little more successful but then I thought Brentford were a better team than Leeds. But last night our play in the final third was poor.

In answer to the OP, it's both. Confidence is fragile and I think the team needs better players to get promoted, along with better coaching of a couple of players who are under performing.

[Dimmu]

4 hours ago, Animal is a Ram said:

eh?

The spine of Keogh, Pearce, Johnson has been very effective. 1 goal conceded in 4 games.

Think its the limbs that need working on!

Basicly you're saying lower back and ass is fine. Upper spine could be improved?

[IlsonDerby]

9 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

I am sorry, while last night was a slight improvement, it was still dire

I disagree. The first half wasn't up to much but the second half was fun to watch. End to end stuff, U.S. Camping in their half, them camping in our half. Another good side and whilst things aren't clicking yet we are now unbeaten in 4. Baby steps after the start we had... 

8 hours ago, Mostyn6 said:

Well, this regime has been in place for 2 games. Some of these players haven't been part of the previous McClaren regime, even though it's irrelevant right now as 2 managers ripped that style apart, a style which you've contrived to dismiss the suitability of some players to be able to play, based on what exactly? if not the last two games?

I'm not after an argument per se, BUT, as is the theme of a forum, if someone comments something suspect, and your previous comment was suspect, I will question it. So, what are you basing your opinion on? if it's not the past 2 games, what could it possibly be?

Mate, take off the tinted specs, Hughes has been our worst midfielder this season, by a long way.

Bryson worse by an absolute stride. Hughes has had good games and bad games, Bryson has only had bad games/ineffective.

[PistoldPete2]

I just can't believe how players who can score goals for fun have all stopped knowing where the goals are. Ince, russell, bent, all short of goals. Bryson and Johnson, butterfield and hughes too. Why have they all lost their shooting boots all at once? 

[Mostyn6]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said:

I just can't believe how players who can score goals for fun have all stopped knowing where the goals are. Ince, russell, bent, all short of goals. Bryson and Johnson, butterfield and hughes too. Why have they all lost their shooting boots all at once? 

it's been coached out of them, it will soon be coached back into them.

[Rammed79]

I think we could do with getting rid of six or seven players and bringing in two or three real quality ones 

[BondJovi]

Well, McClaren has got to undo all that Pearson did first. Then the players can start to gain confidence and do things quicker. A harder job then last time as more than a tweak is needed!

[toddy]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 07:39, Mostyn6 said:

if you think performances haven't improved, you either wasn't watching properly before, or you aren't watching properly now. Or both!

You're clearly just focussing on the score line.

Both the Leeds and Brentford 1st half performances were dire - as bad as under Pearson, so improved, no not really.

We look like we need a few better/quality players to come in January, as the team is not quite good enough.

Are we expecting Mac to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear?

[RamsPolls]

2 minutes ago, toddy said:

Both the Leeds and Brentford 1st half performances were dire - as bad as under Pearson, so improved, no not really.

We look like we need a few better/quality players to come in January, as the team is not quite good enough.

Are we expecting Mac to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear?

Not a chance were they as bad as the Pearson era. 

They were alot faster tempo, We had alot more possession. We carved a few chance out but didn't take them. 

This team is in the top 6 squads in the league. How you can say its not quite good enough is beyond me. 

[toddy]

8 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

Not a chance were they as bad as the Pearson era. 

They were alot faster tempo, We had alot more possession. We carved a few chance out but didn't take them. 

This team is in the top 6 squads in the league. How you can say its not quite good enough is beyond me. 

Because we are sitting 20th in the league,