Confidence issue or a rebuild required?

[Seth's left foot]

15 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Another clean sheet is great and something worth building on. I would say last night was a backward step from the Leeds game.

You could call that game the manager bounce.

I know Mac will turn it round, as I said I am a fan and hope he can recreate the heady days of a couple of years ago.

 

 

I think you're confusing football with Snakes and Ladders.

Agree with Mostyn, if we'd have snuck a 1-0 win again then the mindset would be different as we would be 3 points off the playoffs. It is not the football of SM's last tenure yet but it is definitely an improvement on NP's dross.

It will be interesting to see how the players fare against the pressing game of Huddersfield.

[Alph]

20 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

Yet according to the majority on here it took him less than 15 minutes to transform the entire club last time around with his half time team talk v Ipswich... Are you saying he's lost his inspirational mojo?

4 points from two games is play off / close to championship winning form.  Only a fool would argue that's a bad start to his second spell.

That appears to be sniping at him. 

It appears bitter because nobody said he changed the entire club in 15 minutes. 

4 points from 2 games is better what was it? 6 from 9? 

Whether you like it or not (which you obviously dont) We went upwards under McClaren last time. The results,  the league, the home and away attendance, the excitement. It all improved. 

He's always praised Clough. Just like he did last Friday when he said in 2013 he stepped into a team and tweaked things. 

Where now there are clearly problems. A lack of balance. Not such a team.

 

[FindernRam]

The match last night was really a bit more of the same from Derby. Ponderous with occasional flashes of skill.

Anya and Vydra are beginning to work well together but the issue is they link up far to wide and no-one is following up into the middle. And that is the biggest problem of all to me. There is virtually no movement off the ball. No making runs, no dropping into space. They all jog around to a predetermined zone then wait for the ball. No urgency at all apart from Keogh. When someone does have a dash ( Ince and Vydra did a couple) no one anticipates it and makes the pass.

I like the "new " defence with Pearce and Johnson in it. I think that will develop well, although we need 2 improved fullbacks who can put a cross over. Hughes was off it last night even before he got clattered. I still think he's too lightweight for this division. Bryson is losing it for some reason.

Upfront we need tons of shooting practice from the whole team. Watching pre match warm up with no pressure we only seem to be on target 3 time out of 10. What is Phillips doing?

[ronnieronalde]

25 minutes ago, Alpha said:

That appears to be sniping at him. 

It appears bitter because nobody said he changed the entire club in 15 minutes. 

4 points from 2 games is better what was it? 6 from 9? 

Whether you like it or not (which you obviously dont) We went upwards under McClaren last time. The results,  the league, the home and away attendance, the excitement. It all improved. 

He's always praised Clough. Just like he did last Friday when he said in 2013 he stepped into a team and tweaked things. 

Where now there are clearly problems. A lack of balance. Not such a team.

 

Not sniping at him, more sniping at the fickle nature of fans who'll find reasons for praising or criticising and then change the goalposts next time around.

I don't mind at all and don't deny that the club went on an upward curve when Steve came in first time around. Not my issue at all. I was and will be genuinely pleased for the fans and the players if/when the next play off charge comes.

I hope he turns things around but don't believe he deserved a second chance.

I think he's made a great start and wasn't suggesting otherwise. 4 points and two clean sheets in two games is a great platform to build from. Anyone expecting or demanding better than that is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[sage]

44 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Odd that you pick arguably the most ineffective players from last night.

Hughes was shocking until going off, misplaced at least 3 simple sideways passes, and didn't try anything progressive. Keogh caused issues again, although did have a an adventurous run or two. Bryson managed to win a couple of headers, but was crap with his feet and was the worst of the 3 midfielders again. Anya was jeered off the pitch for his inability to actually do anything with the ball, and Vydra played like Bent but without the instinct!

Whereas Pearce was man of the match, didn't misplace a pass (forward), Johnson attempted, and was successful in some deft dinks and through-balls, but admittedly failed with 2 drilled switch passes. Butterfield is coming into his own too, with lots of ball retention and attempted to do the job that Will Hughes should be doing.

Baird was steady. Christie was shocking, Russell was flat-footed and looked de-motivated to me.

Odd that you choose to look at one game rather than the last 3 and a half seasons. 

Anya wasn't jeered off the pitch and created the best piece of the skill of the night near the end of the game. Vydra played nothing like Bent. He worked really hard but isn't suited to that position. Are you really that desperate for an argument?

[NottsRam77]

Confidence probably isn't being helped by the rediculously moan levels at present amongst the crowd.

there was a phase of play second half, we were attacking, the move lost some momentum due to Brentford funnelling back rather rapidly and people round me were going nuts...... We still had the ball FYI  

We then passed it, passed it and passed it somemore and got a shot off, the very same people who were just up in arms only moments ago were applauding the shot like applauding seals 

i think unless we're carving through teams like a hot knife through butter like an inform Barcelona side there really will be no pleasing some people

we're a championship side with championship players - perspective people, perspective

im getting dangerously close to losing my sh@t with some around us, 

I had to miss the Leeds game due to family commitments but I returned today expecting fans pro mclaren or not to at least welcome the fact that we will at least endeavour to try and play football, which we did.

Having sat through Pearson's spell of absolute dross, i genuinely thought I'd return to a breath of fresh air in terms of the fans support, more so after a win against the dirties, apparently not 

some derby fans, and I'm only saying some, need get a grip or have a quiet word with themselves 

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

We missed Hughes for big chunks of that game last night, IMO that was the difference.

Once Hughes went off, Vydra was having to come deeper to find the ball more because the killer pass was never going to happen for him.

[Ninos]

Good question. Its my current thought after last night that this is a total rebuild. You can't justify a team scoring just 7 goals in 13 games regardless of managers or formations  - that's the worst in English football next to North Ferriby FC of the conference, who have 6.  The entire attack and attacking midfield probably needs to be moved on (although we've known for a while that they're either not very good or can't work together). We got rid of 2 this past window and we probably need to get rid of all the others. 

All this optimism but right now we are hastily moving towards league 1 football. The table doesn't lie.

And this isn't about one player, the problems must run deeper. It's getting old to bash individuals : it's Christie it's martin it's bent it's Blackman it's Bryson - no it isn't it's the lot.

And btw Subbing Vydra for Bent last night was an extremely negative move by mcclaren : unless vydra was hurt all it did was show a lack of faith in vydra and it was a tit for tat change. We should have gone more attacking if we wanted a win or more defensive if we wanted a draw. 

[Mostyn6]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

Odd that you choose to look at one game rather than the last 3 and a half seasons. 

Anya wasn't jeered off the pitch and created the best piece of the skill of the night near the end of the game. Vydra played nothing like Bent. He worked really hard but isn't suited to that position. Are you really that desperate for an argument?

Well, this regime has been in place for 2 games. Some of these players haven't been part of the previous McClaren regime, even though it's irrelevant right now as 2 managers ripped that style apart, a style which you've contrived to dismiss the suitability of some players to be able to play, based on what exactly? if not the last two games?

I'm not after an argument per se, BUT, as is the theme of a forum, if someone comments something suspect, and your previous comment was suspect, I will question it. So, what are you basing your opinion on? if it's not the past 2 games, what could it possibly be?

5 minutes ago, CHCDerby said:

We missed Hughes for big chunks of that game last night, IMO that was the difference.

Once Hughes went off, Vydra was having to come deeper to find the ball more because the killer pass was never going to happen for him.

Mate, take off the tinted specs, Hughes has been our worst midfielder this season, by a long way.

[RamsPolls]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

Mate, take off the tinted specs, Hughes has been our worst midfielder this season, by a long way.

Not a chance. Bryson has been the worst by a country mile.

[Mostyn6]

Just now, RamsPolls said:

Not a chance. Bryson has been the worst by a country mile.

maybe, but it doesn't feel to me like Bryson has played much. Maybe he's just been anonymous.

[RamsPolls]

Just now, Mostyn6 said:

maybe, but it doesn't feel to me like Bryson has played much. Maybe he's just been anonymous.

Bryson played every game under Pearson? He was dropped to the bench when CP took over at cardiff. 

[NottsRam77]

7 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Good question. Its my current thought after last night that this is a total rebuild. You can't justify a team scoring just 7 goals in 13 games regardless of managers or formations  - that's the worst in English football next to North Ferriby FC of the conference, who have 6.  The entire attack and attacking midfield probably needs to be moved on (although we've known for a while that they're either not very good or can't work together). We got rid of 2 this past window and we probably need to get rid of all the others. 

All this optimism but right now we are hastily moving towards league 1 football. The table doesn't lie.

And this isn't about one player, the problems must run deeper. It's getting old to bash individuals : it's Christie it's martin it's bent it's Blackman it's Bryson - no it isn't it's the lot.

And btw Subbing Vydra for Bent last night was an extremely negative move by mcclaren : unless vydra was hurt all it did was show a lack of faith in vydra and it was a tit for tat change. We should have gone more attacking if we wanted a win or more defensive if we wanted a draw. 

Whilst I agree and if it was champo I'd be doing exactly that in the first transfer window available im just not sure stripping the side apart wouldn't be counter productive.

weve had so much upheaval, change and collection of other managers dead wood,  I think atm we're better off backing Mac and giving him the most precious commodity in football (even more than money, time.

time to work with what he has, time to coach, time to build understandings amongst players.

im not pro Maclaren but I'll back him and one thing he is meant to be renknowend for is his ability to coach players.

but then I was pro Pearson so what the chuff do I know lol

 

[Mostyn6]

2 minutes ago, RamsPolls said:

Bryson played every game under Pearson? He was dropped to the bench when CP took over at cardiff. 

Wow, is that true? I genuinely feel he's not played.

[RamsPolls]

1 minute ago, Mostyn6 said:

Wow, is that true? I genuinely feel he's not played.

Fairly sure he played every game.

[Kennington Ram]

1 minute ago, Ninos said:

 

And btw Subbing Vydra for Bent last night was an extremely negative move by mcclaren : unless vydra was hurt all it did was show a lack of faith in vydra and it was a tit for tat change. We should have gone more attacking if we wanted a win or more defensive if we wanted a draw. 

It's also a Saturday/Tuesday double-header through which Vydra's worked hard in both...

Brentford should have been tired too (although our fitness levels still seem to be off the pace), I can see the logic in bringing on a guy who's not had much game time lately to try and be the difference.

[Mostyn6]

12 minutes ago, Ninos said:

Subbing Vydra for Bent last night was an extremely negative move by mcclaren : unless vydra was hurt all it did was show a lack of faith in vydra and it was a tit for tat change. We should have gone more attacking if we wanted a win

a) Vydra was blowing bubbles and running liking he was towing a Boeing 757. Aside of being quite ineffective throughout the whole second half. It was right for him to be subbed off.

b) We took off Baird for Russell and moved Anya to wingback. Was this negative?

[sage]

17 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Well, this regime has been in place for 2 games. Some of these players haven't been part of the previous McClaren regime, even though it's irrelevant right now as 2 managers ripped that style apart, a style which you've contrived to dismiss the suitability of some players to be able to play, based on what exactly? if not the last two games?

I'm not after an argument per se, BUT, as is the theme of a forum, if someone comments something suspect, and your previous comment was suspect, I will question it. So, what are you basing your opinion on? if it's not the past 2 games, what could it possibly be?

.

So you are saying I have contrived a style when stating i think some players can't play that style?? What other context would I use?

I was very specific in saying that if McClaren wants to replicate or near replicate that style it won't suit many of our players. You responded by talking about 1 game, then have a go at me, suggesting I am using 2 games as a parameter, Laughable.  

I have watched these players for more than 2 games. I have gained a reasonable knowledge of their abilities, I have also seen how McClaren wants to play, both previously and now. Some of those players won't work effectively in this style. Not based on 1 game, not based on 2 games, on all their games for us.

One or two will surprise us and cope, but if you don't think we need to get rid of 6 or 7 players and bring at least 3 or 4 in to play like we did previously, then I'm mystified.       

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

36 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

Well, this regime has been in place for 2 games. Some of these players haven't been part of the previous McClaren regime, even though it's irrelevant right now as 2 managers ripped that style apart, a style which you've contrived to dismiss the suitability of some players to be able to play, based on what exactly? if not the last two games?

I'm not after an argument per se, BUT, as is the theme of a forum, if someone comments something suspect, and your previous comment was suspect, I will question it. So, what are you basing your opinion on? if it's not the past 2 games, what could it possibly be?

Mate, take off the tinted specs, Hughes has been our worst midfielder this season, by a long way.

There's no way Hughes has been the worst midfielder. We missed him when he went off last night after Brentford did a job on him.

If anything you must have borrowed my glasses.

[TroyDyer]

Team needs a new spine IMO.