North East Ram Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Nigel was ok at times and did a decent job of what we presume were his objectives related to stability. But it was tough at times and I certainly remember us defending home defeats by taking the ball to the corner with 30 mins to play. In balance, he did ok and I think most recognise his efforts had achievements but in my opinion, he's not the man to take us up. This is now a different job needing different skills. And i'd preferably like to see someone in who's done it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Good grief. This thread seems to have escalated quickly. All I've read is 'bring back Nigel Clough?'. Not even read the first post, as it kind of says it all, but when I saw it was 24 pages long and 199 posts, I was curious as to how old it was. Was someone calling for the return of Clough months ago. No, yesterday. Well, sod that, I'm not reading all those posts, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but this seems like the right thread to put a musing I've been having today. For all the highly priced superstars we've bought, have any of them really improved the starting 11? Clough always said there was money available, but he wouldn't buy anyone unless they improved what he already had. Imagine home working with Mel, and the signings he would have made. I can only really think of Carson, Shackell and possibly Ince as non-Clough signings that regularly get into the team ahead of Clough signings. (Was thorn a Clough signing?) We purr over the likes of Johnson and Butterfield, but secretly can't wait til we get a Hughes, Bryson / Hendrick, Thorne midfield back. Weiman was a big name pen signing, but can't get in ahead of Russell. And, of course, we've not found anyone better than Martin. And we're all lamenting the loss of Forsyth, and loving the development of Christie. In the 2-3 years since Clough has left, has there really been anyone bought who has bettered his original team? You'd've thought by now the first team would be unrecognisable, but it's not. PS I realise the squad is better overall, and fairly unrecognisable, but it's testament to him that the first team, when everyone is fit, is still mostly made up of his players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 2 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: In the 2-3 years since Clough has left, has there really been anyone bought who has bettered his original team? You'd've thought by now the first team would be unrecognisable, but it's not. PS I realise the squad is better overall, and fairly unrecognisable, but it's testament to him that the first team, when everyone is fit, is still mostly made up of his players. Carson better than Grant, Shackell better than Buxton, Christie better than Smith, Thorne better than Eustace, Butterfield better than Bryson, Ince better than Russell, Bent better than Sammon. Clough made a very good squad on a limited budget and we have splashed a lot of money on dross, but there are still a lot of players in our side that our better than what Clough bought in and please don't forget that it took Clough 5 seasons to get a decent squad after all the crap he did sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammed79 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 We are still failing to get up we could have saved a shed load of cash and not sacked him off but we did hey ho and in the mean time Burton have risen from the very bottom and will probably overtake us. I just don't care anymore clough or not I am getting bored by it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 29 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: Carson better than Grant, Shackell better than Buxton, Christie better than Smith, Thorne better than Eustace, Butterfield better than Bryson, Ince better than Russell, Bent better than Sammon. Clough made a very good squad on a limited budget and we have splashed a lot of money on dross, but there are still a lot of players in our side that our better than what Clough bought in and please don't forget that it took Clough 5 seasons to get a decent squad after all the crap he did sign. My first, and probably last post in this thread. No to Clough coming back, its gone and the OP is hamming it up a bit although I was one of NC's fans and thought he did ok at the time and with hindsight, my respect for him went up - s'all watter under t' bridge now. As regards the players mentioned above, the one point that's not considered is the blend of the team, the dynamic, the overall team being greater than its constituent parts. Yes, some of the players pound for pound are better technically but not necessarily better for the team. Carson v Grant I'll give you. Christie v Smith - yes but,v Brayford its a lot closer.... Shack v Buxton - its a lot closer than some think imo, Buxton's leadership and passing make up for Shack being a tad quicker, but yes, i'll go with that, just! Thorne v Eustace -Thorne is far better, quicker, more nimble and more likely to start an attack and score. However, some of the best football we've seen this century was with Eust sitting just in front of the back four and destroying any attacking intent of the opposition. George far more technically gifted yet we played some orgasmic stuff with owd Eusty in the team. Butters v Bryson - hmm?, possibly, better than Hughes though? Slightly different type to Bryson and not necessarily his replacement. Ince v Russell - again, technically Incey is as good as it gets at this level. Is he as effective as Johnny? I'm not sure. they both strike me as not quite knowing what their best position is. Johnny at his best is inspirational and drives the team on. Incey at his best is more likely to open the opposition up. Bent v Sammon - Clough's worst signing, apart from nuisance value as a late sub Conor is just not a very good footballer. Bent was good 5 years ago. With wages taken into account he's possibly a worst signing than Sammon! Take into account that George and Cyrus had previously been on NC's radar before they came here shows that he did have an eye for a player. The team that Clough put together played far better (under McClaren) than the current team seems capable of, so, are they better players? Possibly. They certainly aren't a better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 3 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: The team that Clough put together played far better (under McClaren) than the current team seems capable of, so, are they better players? Possibly. They certainly aren't a better team. There a lot of reasons why that team played better in that season. There wasn't much expectations for the team resulting in a lot less pressure, they had a fantastic team spirit and they had a better experienced manager. I don't think that that team was better than the current one in terms of quality, but they had so much unity and were all fighting for that one goal of promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 10 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: There a lot of reasons why that team played better in that season. There wasn't much expectations for the team resulting in a lot less pressure, they had a fantastic team spirit and they had a better experienced manager. I don't think that that team was better than the current one in terms of quality, but they had so much unity and were all fighting for that one goal of promotion. Again, I stand by my point that its not all about better players automatically making a better team, Its a team game. How many Leicester players would get into Chelsea or Man City's team. If Mahrez and Vardy were signed by City would they be as good? Probably not unless they signed Drinkwater, Morgan and Huth as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Shouldn't we get Burley back as he took over a club in a worse position than clough, spent less money, played better attacking football, was more successful and did it over a quicker period. This clough rubbish always come up again, he was bang average as our manager and he is only loved by some because who his dad was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Bring back Stevie Mac. Loved watching his team. We'd be out of sight by now this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeytennis12345 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 12 hours ago, emjlc02 said: Shouldn't we get Burley back as he took over a club in a worse position than clough, spent less money, played better attacking football, was more successful and did it over a quicker period. This clough rubbish always come up again, he was bang average as our manager and he is only loved by some because who his dad was. Burley wouldn't be interested, now that Zanzibar is just a great big restaurant ! (Then again, some of the waitresses are bang tidy, so you never know !) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Monkeytennis12345 said: Burley wouldn't be interested, now that Zanzibar is just a great big restaurant ! (Then again, some of the waitresses are bang tidy, so you never know !) Thought Zanzibar was a striker in our youth team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 8 minutes ago, Srg said: Thought Zanzibar was a striker in our youth team? Racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 15 hours ago, TigerTedd said: Good grief. This thread seems to have escalated quickly. All I've read is 'bring back Nigel Clough?'. Not even read the first post, as it kind of says it all, but when I saw it was 24 pages long and 199 posts, I was curious as to how old it was. Was someone calling for the return of Clough months ago. No, yesterday. Well, sod that, I'm not reading all those posts, so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but this seems like the right thread to put a musing I've been having today. For all the highly priced superstars we've bought, have any of them really improved the starting 11? Clough always said there was money available, but he wouldn't buy anyone unless they improved what he already had. Imagine home working with Mel, and the signings he would have made. I can only really think of Carson, Shackell and possibly Ince as non-Clough signings that regularly get into the team ahead of Clough signings. (Was thorn a Clough signing?) We purr over the likes of Johnson and Butterfield, but secretly can't wait til we get a Hughes, Bryson / Hendrick, Thorne midfield back. Weiman was a big name pen signing, but can't get in ahead of Russell. And, of course, we've not found anyone better than Martin. And we're all lamenting the loss of Forsyth, and loving the development of Christie. In the 2-3 years since Clough has left, has there really been anyone bought who has bettered his original team? You'd've thought by now the first team would be unrecognisable, but it's not. PS I realise the squad is better overall, and fairly unrecognisable, but it's testament to him that the first team, when everyone is fit, is still mostly made up of his players. Thorne isn't a Clough signing. I appreciate the work Clough did here, but Premiership loans were definitely a blot on his copy book. When Clough was here Premiership teams seemed to foist off players that obviously weren't ready for first team football or were just unwilling to mix it in the championship on us. McClaren changed all that by bringing in some of the best youth prospects in the country. Christie technically wasn't a Clough signing either, but had been identified by him as a potential target before McClaren arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Monkeytennis12345 said: Burley wouldn't be interested, now that Zanzibar is just a great big restaurant ! (Then again, some of the waitresses are bang tidy, so you never know !) The Broadway have never recovered from the loss of earnings since he left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdontightuk Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Removing-Nigel-Rams-biggest-mistake/story-28579927-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEL Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 34 minutes ago, Holdontightuk said: http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Removing-Nigel-Rams-biggest-mistake/story-28579927-detail/story.html It's not biggest mistake and I can assure you that it was the BEST THING EVER FROM DCFC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 42 minutes ago, Holdontightuk said: http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Removing-Nigel-Rams-biggest-mistake/story-28579927-detail/story.html You just know its going to be an opinion worth hearing when it starts "I'm not a natural football supporter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor1946 Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 As a natural football supporter ,i found it a very good opinion.thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holdontightuk Posted March 1, 2016 Author Share Posted March 1, 2016 If you cut Sam Rush in half you will find two words......Sam Rush. if you'd cut Clough in half when he was here you'd have found two words.....Derby County. I wonder what we'd find if we cut MM in half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Holdontightuk said: If you cut Sam Rush in half you will find two words......Sam Rush. if you'd cut Clough in half when he was here you'd have found two words.....Derby County. I wonder what we'd find if we cut MM in half? I have no words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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