Jesse Lingard - good enough for England but not Derby?

[rynny]

Read this earlier about call ups for England, very good read, and very interesting.

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/it-easy-win-england-call-numbers-prove-it#:KPVVra_q-lh1CA

This bit is quite unbelievable.

Quote

Of all the English players in the top flight, 141 have featured in at least five Premier League matches in their career, and of those 141 players, 71 have an England cap or call-up to their name. Only 70 have not. In their respective careers, half of the Premier League's English contingent have been deemed good enough to play for their country.

 

[Philmycock]

11 hours ago, Ted McMinn Football Genius said:

Lets go back to July, and there are 2 possible scenarios...

1/ Derby break transfer record to sign Tom Ince

2/ Derby break transfer record to sign Jesse Lingard

based on previous performances last season which would you be happy with?

Now make a decision on why/if Jesse Lingard should get an England call up over Tom Ince and come to think of it the other in loan winger that JL couldn't get in ahead of.....Jordan Ibe

This post is bang on.

If we'd had spunked £4.75m on Lingard there would have been a few raised eyebrows

[Boycie]

38 minutes ago, philmycock said:

This post is bang on.

If we'd had spunked £4.75m on Lingard there would have been a few raised eyebrows

You filthy creature, use a handkerchief 

[Alph]

Kicked a bottle top down a drain earlier and Roy wants me to play tomorrow. 

[gazram80]

This is the reason myself and lot of people I know do not watch England any more. Always the same no matter who manages the national side play for the top clubs we will pick you even if you never play or are limited to a few sub apps.

Would Lingard  have been picked if he was here on loan for the season and had played every minute of every game?

i think we all know the answer to that?

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, gazram80 said:

This is the reason myself and lot of people I know do not watch England any more. Always the same no matter who manages the national side play for the top clubs we will pick you even if you never play or are limited to a few sub apps.

Would Lingard  have been picked if he was here on loan for the season and had played every minute of every game?

i think we all know the answer to that?

Is there not a reason why they are playing for the top clubs though?

[Day]

I really don't get it. We all have seen how youngsters are getting snapped up by the big clubs, stuck in the academy, fed the dream they can one day break into the Chelsea, Man Utd teams, it hardly ever happens. They get released or leave for peanuts at 24 with no experience other than the odd 6 month loan here and there.

As a result England suffer, I hate to think how many players with a few games under their belt could have had a much different career ahead of them.

Here we have Hodgson, a manager willing to say, come on then, show us what you've got. A player Roy would have seen in the summer, had a great game v Portugal and scored the winner v Sweden for the U21's, picked up man of the match v WBA for United and the BBC also gave him man of the match v Moscow in the Champions League.

This isn't someone he's just dragged off a Sunday league pitch, a player that is being given the experience that so many youngsters have been starved of over the years whilst we've stuck with the same old so called big names.

This is the same player one of the worlds most respected manager has also picked for Champions League game and picked up man of the match! So what he didn't break through into Derby's team, so what we would have spent more on Ince. Could it be that Derby wasn't using him right? could it be he never settled in the area, we didn't see the best Lingard.

Either way both Roy Hodson and Louis Van Gaal have seen something in him and I'm glad he's been given this opportunity, it's a friendly, hopefully he starts and shines and keeps himself in Van Gaal's thoughts, our youngsters need this, not to be blasted.

'Kin ell, if you want an excuse to not watch England use the one we probably play the most boring football seen for years, I don't think many would argue with that, not because we're willing to give youngsters a chance.

[G STAR RAM]

42 minutes ago, Daveo said:

I really don't get it. We all have seen how youngsters are getting snapped up by the big clubs, stuck in the academy, fed the dream they can one day break into the Chelsea, Man Utd teams, it hardly ever happens. They get released or leave for peanuts at 24 with no experience other than the odd 6 month loan here and there.

As a result England suffer, I hate to think how many players with a few games under their belt could have had a much different career ahead of them.

Here we have Hodgson, a manager willing to say, come on then, show us what you've got. A player Roy would have seen in the summer, had a great game v Portugal and scored the winner v Sweden for the U21's, picked up man of the match v WBA for United and the BBC also gave him man of the match v Moscow in the Champions League.

This isn't someone he's just dragged off a Sunday league pitch, a player that is being given the experience that so many youngsters have been starved of over the years whilst we've stuck with the same old so called big names.

This is the same player one of the worlds most respected manager has also picked for Champions League game and picked up man of the match! So what he didn't break through into Derby's team, so what we would have spent more on Ince. Could it be that Derby wasn't using him right? could it be he never settled in the area, we didn't see the best Lingard.

Either way both Roy Hodson and Louis Van Gaal have seen something in him and I'm glad he's been given this opportunity, it's a friendly, hopefully he starts and shines and keeps himself in Van Gaal's thoughts, our youngsters need this, not to be blasted.

'Kin ell, if you want an excuse to not watch England use the one we probably play the most boring football seen for years, I don't think many would argue with that, not because we're willing to give youngsters a chance.

Spot on.

Would not surprise me if many of the people moaning about 'big club bias' are the same ones that were saying Vardy does not deserve a call up because he Is only scoring for Leicester 

[Bris Vegas]

Picking players for England is a little bit more complex than just checking who they play for or what they've managed to achieve in the three games prior to the international squad selection.

Hodgson isn't as daft as you make out. He will have revised the player's attitude, winning mentality, how they react to pressure etc. Moreover, he probably has one eye on the future.

He must already have in mind who he would like to take to Euro 2016, while the WC 2018 is two-and-a-half years away and preparing youngters now is preferable to throwing them in at the deep end come 2018.

There might be players on better form than Lingaard currently, but form is temporary so in James Puncheon's case - is he a realistic option for France 16 or Russia 18 considering he is 29-years-old?

Over the years we've had some right pointless call-ups - Rickie Lambert, Kevin Davies, Jay Bothroyd, Fraizer Campbell, Leon Osman, Matt Jarvis, Carlton Cole, Nicky Shorey have all been in the last seven years or so - these players were pointless due to their age, future prospects and declining ability.

If you look at our current squad, the likes of Alli, Dier, Jonjo Shelvey, Lingaard, Stones, Sterling, Mason, Kane, Clyne and Butland are all 24 or under - these are players who need that experience now in order to be seasoned enough for when we reach Russia in 2018.

The likes of Rooney, Cahill, Milner, Carrick, Baines, Jagielka and even Vardy could be over the hill by then.

 

 

 

 

[JoetheRam]

The thing that annoys me about Hodgson is that we've had a year and a half of effectively playing training matches to qualify where he could have been throwing these kind of players in to see if they had the mettle required. Instead he's picked mostly the established players for the easy games, but now with 6 months left he's started experimenting!

Now should be the time for nailing down your starting 11, getting a cohesive unit and a game plan for how we're going to play against the top sides, not giving untried players an easy cap for pretty much no reason. I'm not a fan of Alli, although he did score a good goal against France, but can anyone honestly say they expect him to feature much at the Euros? I can't. Same with Dier, Lingard, Shelvey, Cleverley, Chambers etc.

We all pretty much know the starting 11 and even with one or two places up for grabs, it won't include the likes of the players mentioned above. Instead it will be the same team that played together 18 months ago more or less, but it will have had less time to gel together than it should have.

[IronRam 140.6]

On 15/11/2015, 22:00:24, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lingard for England. pfffffft. i cannot for the life of me think what he has done to deserve a call up. suggesting Tom Ince is equally mental, neither are good enough for that level..... yet....maybe yet. neither is Ibe, Zaha, Berahino. just shows the lack of quality England have really. 

Hodgson just cherry picks a few form players for caps, never really gives them a run or a real test, plys them in some meaningless friendlies and then reverts back to the old guard regardless of form for any meaningful game. English players never know when to pass down the opportunity to the next bunch though, Rooney will be/is the next one, hanging around until the very last cap, just to extend that record abit longer, like Gerrard did, like Lampard did, like Beckham did, like shearer did. f*ck, only Scholes and sheringham had the decency to call it a day in the last 10 years or so

Sure Shearer packed up at about 29 did he not??

[G STAR RAM]

12 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

The thing that annoys me about Hodgson is that we've had a year and a half of effectively playing training matches to qualify where he could have been throwing these kind of players in to see if they had the mettle required. Instead he's picked mostly the established players for the easy games, but now with 6 months left he's started experimenting!

Now should be the time for nailing down your starting 11, getting a cohesive unit and a game plan for how we're going to play against the top sides, not giving untried players an easy cap for pretty much no reason. I'm not a fan of Alli, although he did score a good goal against France, but can anyone honestly say they expect him to feature much at the Euros? I can't. Same with Dier, Lingard, Shelvey, Cleverley, Chambers etc.

We all pretty much know the starting 11 and even with one or two places up for grabs, it won't include the likes of the players mentioned above. Instead it will be the same team that played together 18 months ago more or less, but it will have had less time to gel together than it should have.

It's an interesting theory but if the manager experimented during qualifiers and lost a game he would get crucified!

[Statham512]

Puncheon maybe not best example due to age but there's plenty of other players in the past who've not had the international career they should have had due to not playing for a so called "top 4" side. With the yes men the FA appoint they play it safe and pick anyone from top teams so as not to rock the boat or be a bit contraversial. At least when someone like Vardy get a chance he looks like he really wants it. When the teams virtually picked itself before at these tournaments half the players have one eye on where they're taking the Mrs on their jollys as soon as we're knocked out 

[ram1964]

Personally Van Gall is going to get caught out ,Utd are not an attractive side to watch and despite presently being 2nd  are probably well down the pecking order against other European clubs .Psg ,Juventus ,Barca ,Real ,Bayern , just a few all capable of tearing them apart ,whilst considering Utd having spent quarter of a billion squid beating Watford with a 93 rd min goal does not in my personal opinion give Van Gall much credence ,Lingard is no better a player now than he was at Derby ,perhaps he didn't adjust or adapt  / settle as well for us or perhaps playing in front of 60 000 with players such as Mata boost his confidence enabling him to perform ,however I am sure if you placed any single player from the Derby squad in the United set up they wouldn't look too shabby.

[Jordy]

On 11/15/2015, 10:00:24, Dr. Gonzo said:

Lingard for England. pfffffft. i cannot for the life of me think what he has done to deserve a call up. suggesting Tom Ince is equally mental, neither are good enough for that level..... yet....maybe yet. neither is Ibe, Zaha, Berahino. just shows the lack of quality England have really. 

Hodgson just cherry picks a few form players for caps, never really gives them a run or a real test, plys them in some meaningless friendlies and then reverts back to the old guard regardless of form for any meaningful game. English players never know when to pass down the opportunity to the next bunch though, Rooney will be/is the next one, hanging around until the very last cap, just to extend that record abit longer, like Gerrard did, like Lampard did, like Beckham did, like shearer did. f*ck, only Scholes and sheringham had the decency to call it a day in the last 10 years or so

I agree some England players did play for too long but that was generally pre-Hodgson. Roy Hodgson has always been looking to the future and giving new players a chance. I think the main criticisms of the current England team is the lack of experience and that could really show if we end up going far in the Euros. Sadly Rooney and Hart are the only good England players of their generation and this is a shame but at least Roy has recognised this.

This is a good read: http://www.espnfc.com/team/england/448/blog/post/2713688/england-hoping-to-avoid-past-mistakes-with-new-generation

I think the Jordan Ibe and Jesse Lingard comparisons are unfair. Jordan Ibe played in a Derby side that was playing well as a team and winning games. Jesse Lingard joined on February 2nd and was part of a team that didn't win that many games or play well in the latter half of the season. It is difficult to fairly judge a player who's only played in a team playing badly, I feel much the same way about Albentosa. For instance look at how much better Warnock is now he's playing in a side doing well.

[Uptherams]

United fans have caught on now. Lack of an end product. 

[uttoxram75]

Man U got their usual bye into the knockout stages yet may **** up yet.

Shame.

[Inverurie Ram]

Loving listening to the whinging Manx on Radio 5. They've had it terrible for years, it must be such a struggle being a Man Utd fan!

Get it up ya, ya dirty Manx.......enjoy watching your paint dry, and here's hoping Van Gaal stays forever!....He keeps me well entertained.

1min 47seconds......get the dirty mank out of our ground and enjoy the wonderful fans in the white and the black.

 

 

[Animal is a Ram]

On 11/25/2015, 10:12:50, Inverurie Ram said:

Loving listening to the whinging Manx on Radio 5. They've had it terrible for years, it must be such a struggle being a Man Utd fan!

Get it up ya, ya dirty Manx.......enjoy watching your paint dry, and here's hoping Van Gaal stays forever!....He keeps me well entertained.

1min 47seconds......get the dirty mank out of our ground and enjoy the wonderful fans in the white and the black.

 

 

What did the Isle of Man do to you? Give you a speeding ticket?

[Inverurie Ram]

2 hours ago, AnimalisaRam said:

What did the Isle of Man do to you? Give you a speeding ticket?

No.....but I can understand the need for speed to get well away from the Theatre of Screams.....BOO!....Are you Man U?