StaffsRam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Freedom of speech and expression isn't a "get out of jail free" card - I could walk around spouting that Adolf was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that the Nazis had some great ideas - not only would I be wrong but I'd also be either an idiot or just plain bonkers.McClean can express himself however he chooses, and others are equally free to criticise him for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakartaRam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I really don't know why you keep bringing up "other parts of the world", as in much of the world such would be tolerated, and in many places could end up being celebrated by some groups. It's irrelevant though as he's not some foreign national in a far away place, he's a UK national from a border region who has a very justified concern that is being highlighted by such events. Whether you agree with him or not, you surely have to be able to understand where the concerns are. To me he did it in the most respectful manner he could, and he has done it in the most respectful manner possible from the start. To me the disrespectful part is expecting him to join in from the start, particularly the poppies, as to me actually just expecting everyone to wear one (or the image) is disrespectful to those who gave their lives. Such displays should be given willingly and by choice, not seen as something that we must do. By making people do it, potentially against their will you sap all meaning from the display, which is a far greater insult than someone silently turning and bowing their head during an anthem. This happened in America a country which is well known for national anthems at sporting events.Also he has only been a WBA player for a few weeks so they cannot be promoting it over the period you claim ,If they are then they need to look at their organisation very thoroughly as this raises even further questions.As a wide travelled individual I can't think one country I have visited where this would be celebrated Sport is supposed to be apolitical yes ? James McLean actions continue to make sure this is not the case why ? After all what as a pre-season friendly got to with the English Irish conflict when most Irish and English people have moved on !Oh yes and you've had enough for a lifetime of death penalty debates very good ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Freedom of speech and expression isn't a "get out of jail free" card - I could walk around spouting that Adolf was the greatest thing since sliced bread and that the Nazis had some great ideas - not only would I be wrong but I'd also be either an idiot or just plain bonkers.McClean can express himself however he chooses, and others are equally free to criticise him for it.Isn't that final sentence exactly what I am saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It is. Even though my post followed your's that wasn't necessarily directed at you. I was just pointing out that whilst we enjoy freedoms of speech and expression this doesn't mean that we should abuse them in the name of idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Isn't that final sentence exactly what I am saying?Like Staffs said. He's got the freedom to do that, and he won't be hung for it, and that's a good thing. But it doesn't mean he's right, and it doesn't mean he's not an idiot.In fact, people who don't think he's right almost have an obligation now to use their power of free speech to let the world know what an idiot he is. If no one is allowed to say anything about it, then kid's will go on thinking that's absolutely acceptable behaviour, and the merry-go-round just keeps turning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oHbO8TcK51EJ:https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/premier-league-defence-james-mcclean-154628960--sow.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Top linking there bob.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Like Staffs said. He's got the freedom to do that, and he won't be hung for it, and that's a good thing. But it doesn't mean he's right, and it doesn't mean he's not an idiot.In fact, people who don't think he's right almost have an obligation now to use their power of free speech to let the world know what an idiot he is. If no one is allowed to say anything about it, then kid's will go on thinking that's absolutely acceptable behaviour, and the merry-go-round just keeps turning.Tiger I'm not arguing with most of what you have said here I am just trying to say that he is not an idiot per se', he's an idiot to some because of their firmly held views whilst others may support his stance because of their firmly held views. Some could argue that nationalism itself is stupid if looked at dispassionately. I'm not defending his views, just the right to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Good point actually. I assume that's in America. You know what they're like for overblown patriotism.when i took Hants Jnr to Florida last year, at Busch Gardens the Stars and Stripes were played on opening the park.Imagine how the masses gathered at Alton Towers would greet a bit of God Save the Queen at 9am...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oHbO8TcK51EJ:https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/premier-league-defence-james-mcclean-154628960--sow.html+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ukI agree with points 1 and 3 but not 2. That article goes on to say that every country that has bared the brunt of the British Empire (but we'll conveniently forget the advantages of being part of that Empire) now has a claim to the wealth accrued. This discussion has been pretty interesting but there's really no reason to be bringing some distorted form of white guilt into it, especially in relation to the Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I think the bigger question is why did they have national anthems at a friendly?It was in America, they did the American anthem and then GSTQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale The Ram Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Its his beliefs and I respect that, he has the right to do it but I don't see the point, he can move on and let the past be the past.But if he hated the UK so much why does he live in the UK and earn his £££'s here? we cant all be bad then.Think he needs to practise what he preaches as he comes across as a half hearted attention seeking man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 we probably should have looked the other way when handing bailout funds to Irelandhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9813358/British-taxpayers-funded-Irelands-14bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billionhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2338795/British-taxpayers-paid-extra-10bn-backdoor-bailout-Irish-economy-2008-MPs-discuss-breakup-RBS.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 To him, he was born on the isle of Ireland bcnram, as you well know.........a sad tale that will not be resolved in our lifetime.But, but, but........ He was geographically born in the United Kingdom and is a UK citizen. If his parents were that uptight about it, they should have hopped across the border and delivered him there. I travel to Belfast and Lisburn a fair bit on biz and believe me, it is largely resolved apart from a few idiots and an odd parade here and there to stir things up. Religion eh?? Cause of so much strife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 we probably should have looked the other way when handing bailout funds to Irelandhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9813358/British-taxpayers-funded-Irelands-14bn-bail-out.htmlhttp://www.theguardian.com/business/2010/nov/22/ireland-bailout-uk-lends-seven-billionhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2338795/British-taxpayers-paid-extra-10bn-backdoor-bailout-Irish-economy-2008-MPs-discuss-breakup-RBS.html What does that have to do with James McClean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I agree with points 1 and 3 but not 2. That article goes on to say that every country that has bared the brunt of the British Empire (but we'll conveniently forget the advantages of being part of that Empire) now has a claim to the wealth accrued. This discussion has been pretty interesting but there's really no reason to be bringing some distorted form of white guilt into it, especially in relation to the Irish. I agree... Just thought I would share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesterRam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 What does that have to do with James McClean?he instigated it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 In my opinion the guy is a fool who has clearly taken the decision to deliberately take this action to stir up a situation that has largely gone away. Nobody is asking the idiot to stand and look at the flag or recognise it in any way. If you turn away from it that is a different and provocative action. He is looking for trouble and I suspect that he may well find it at some point along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 In my opinion the guy is a fool who has clearly taken the decision to deliberately take this action to stir up a situation that has largely gone away. Nobody is asking the idiot to stand and look at the flag or recognise it in any way. If you turn away from it that is a different and provocative action. He is looking for trouble and I suspect that he may well find it at some point along the way.But why? Do you think he's at home sniggering at all the nasty comments he's getting?I don't think anyone would be happier than McClean if his actions were completely ignored. Knowing people will be worked up by something isn't a good enough reason to avoid doing the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'd agree that it's silly and attention seeking if he'd put out a statement saying "Just a heads up, I won't be facing the flag during the national anthem". He didn't, he just did it. There may have been other displays of this sort of thing in his career that may not have been picked up on.Now I know he has to put out a statement about the Poppy thing every ******* year but that's because people won't leave him alone about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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