James McClean - More Controversy

[Albert]

And the UK doesn't persecute when it wants ?

I'm sure there's elements of it remaining in most countries, though much quieter. But a country that directly punishes citizens for speaking out with such protest is backward in that sense. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

What horrifically backward societies ? 

 

Any society that locks anyone up for insulting the monarch is a backward society.

[Anon]

You can go to a country and enjoy your time there, but still have problems with forcing nationalism and ridiculous jingoistic displays into football, which should be entirely apolitical. 

Imagine that you go to Argentina, love the people, the culture, the location and the lifestyle, but in the lead up to a match are forced to join in a chant of "Las Malvinas son Argentinas" pregame. Would you join in? 

That isn't a fair comparison. He's only being asked to respect the flag and anthem, not sing the sash.

[JakartaRam]

Any country that would persecute based on such. 

Albert

If your picture is an of  an Austriailan cricketer as I suspect it is then perhaps you should think hard about your views.

After all Austrialia let's migrants drift and die at sea , so civilised !

Any society that locks anyone up for insulting the monarch is a backward society.

Not really just their accepted way of life , culture is different not always backward

[AndyinLiverpool]

Albert

If your picture is an of  an Austriailan cricketer as I suspect it is then perhaps you should think hard about your views.

After all Austrialia let's migrants drift and die at sea , so civilised !

Not really just their accepted way of life , culture is different not always backward

No, it's backward. Deference to the monarch under threat of persecution is backward.

[JakartaRam]

Anyway what is backwards what makes you think the west is right ?

I am yet to find the answer

No, it's backward. Deference to the monarch under threat of persecution is backward.

Have you ever been to Asia ? If so I would like to think you would understand the difference , things are not the same and regardless of our personal views we have little right to impose them on the local population. They will change when and if required to suit their needs not ours.

[Albert]

That isn't a fair comparison. He's only being asked to respect the flag and anthem, not sing the sash.

Fine. How about we replace a song with a banner next to a flag on a particular day commemorating the conflict. 

Albert

If your picture is an of  an Austriailan cricketer as I suspect it is then perhaps you should think hard about your views.

After all Austrialia let's migrants drift and die at sea , so civilised !

Not really just their accepted way of life , culture is different not always backward

In a thread about disagreeing with elements of society, with me specifically stating that a feel people can and should be able to disagree with such, are you actually trying to form an argument against what I'm saying by pointing out issues with Australia? Really? 

Yes, I do disagree with many elements of Australia's border operations. The way it has been politicised over the years is a horrifying situation, but it is equally more subtle and complex than many seem to give it credit. The way you've described it however is not only inaccurate, but a horrifyingly poor way of putting it. I do disagree with how the Australian government, both current and previous, have tried to deal with the situation. 

...and again, punishing citizens for peaceful protest is most definitely backwards. 

[AndyinLiverpool]

Anyway what is backwards what makes you think the west is right ?

I am yet to find the answer

Have you ever been to Asia ? If so I would like to think you would understand the difference , things are not the same and regardless of our personal views we have little right to impose them on the local population. They will change when and if required to suit their needs not ours.

I'm not sure anyone said we ought to change them.

That the Thais want to kow tow to an individual and endow him with mystical properties is entirely up to them. When they change is up to them but that doesn't stop the whole principle being backward.

[JakartaRam]

I'm not sure anyone said we ought to change them.

That the Thais want to kow tow to an individual and endow him with mystical properties is entirely up to them. When they change is up to them but that doesn't stop the whole principle being backward.

Andy

Don't disagree just it's only backwards to us not to them and when China rules the world who know's ??

[Mafiabob]

It's a shame you can't have principles over here nowadays without getting shouted down etc...

 

has he committed a crime? 

 

[Anon]

It's a shame you can't have principles over here nowadays without getting shouted down etc...

 

has he committed a crime? 

 

I don't understand this point of view. Why should he be allowed to express himself, yet those who criticise him shouldn't? (Excluding mindless threats obviously)

[JakartaRam]

Fine. How about we replace a song with a banner next to a flag on a particular day commemorating the conflict. 

In a thread about disagreeing with elements of society, with me specifically stating that a feel people can and should be able to disagree with such, are you actually trying to form an argument against what I'm saying by pointing out issues with Australia? Really? 

Yes, I do disagree with many elements of Australia's border operations. The way it has been politicised over the years is a horrifying situation, but it is equally more subtle and complex than many seem to give it credit. The way you've described it however is not only inaccurate, but a horrifyingly poor way of putting it. I do disagree with how the Australian government, both current and previous, have tried to deal with the situation. 

...and again, punishing citizens for peaceful protest is most definitely backwards. 

No not looking for an argument

Just you have been so judgemental about me as a person about a factual comment of the problems McLean might face if he moved to Thailand next week

I live in Indonesia and Austrialia is seen  in many places here as arrogant and backward.

Most notably around the recent executions. Indonesia has managed to free people from death row quietly. Austrailia did not even with help of the world's press.

It's a shame you can't have principles over here nowadays without getting shouted down etc...

 

has he committed a crime? 

 

No absolutely not

 

[AndyinLiverpool]

It's a shame you can't have principles over here nowadays without getting shouted down etc...

 

has he committed a crime? 

 

He lives in a country which should be tolerant of the individual and largely is.

Unfortunately, we also live in a country where someone can get death threats for suggesting that a woman ought to appear on the back of the new £20 note and where some people see uncritical deference to the flag and the fetishising of the armed forces to be the very duty of every individual resident. To the extent that any opposition to anything done in the name of the country is a callous act of betrayal rather than an expression of one's own principle.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but woe betide anyone whose opinion diverges from accepted norms.

[Harrowram]

James Maclean should respect the country which employs him and keeps his family safe. If the English national football team disrespected the Irish national anthem in Dublin due to the connivance of the Irish government, clergy and security forces with the IRA during the troubles there would be hell to pay!

[TroyDyer]

I love the fact that pro British people have a go at foreigners saying they live in backwards societies, and we are a free democracy, yet fly off the handle when someone exercises their supposed 'freedoms'. Does make me chuckle. 

Couldn't give a **** about a bloody flag. It is a flag.  

[JakartaRam]

James Maclean should respect the country which employs him and keeps his family safe. If the English national football team disrespected the Irish national anthem in Dublin due to the connivance of the Irish government, clergy and security forces with the IRA during the troubles there would be hell to pay!

Thank you so after being berated for highlighting another country where this would not go down well ! we agree Great Britain / the UK has also unfinished history on this

[AndyinLiverpool]

I don't understand this point of view. Why should he be allowed to express himself, yet those who criticise him shouldn't? (Excluding mindless threats obviously)

The point is to put a cogent argument as to why he is wrong, rather than abuse. The first reply to the original post simply said, 'scum', which, whilst others have raised the debate on this thread somewhat since, is all too often the level of discussion when emotive topics are involved.

[Albert]

No not looking for an argument

Just you have been so judgemental about me as a person about a factual comment of the problems McLean might face if he moved to Thailand next week

I live in Indonesia and Austrialia is seen  in many places here as arrogant and backward.

Most notably around the recent executions. Indonesia has managed to free people from death row quietly. Austrailia did not even with help of the world's press.

No absolutely not

 

Australia and Indonesia's relationship is actually quite funny. Two great countries and people who get along great most of the time, but our governments love using eachother for bizarre political pandering around election time. 

Not sure why you'd bring up the death penalty here. Indonesia being hypocritical on such matters isn't exactly relevant to the situation. 

Again, McClean might face problems in other countries, but that is entirely not the point. What backwards characteristics other countries have (and again, that isn't saying that there exists a country that is completely without such) shouldn't be used as a benchmark for discussing such concerns in a country with a more modern view of such. 

I don't understand this point of view. Why should he be allowed to express himself, yet those who criticise him shouldn't? (Excluding mindless threats obviously)

Did anybody say you couldn't criticise? Did anyone say that nobody should criticise the criticism? 

[TroyDyer]

If folks actually looked at the history of Britain, what we did in Ireland, what we did in Africa, what we did in Australia, what we did to the native Americans, what we continue to do in the ME, I'm surprised more people don't turn their back on the flag. Not to mention ignoring the national anthem, which isn't even an anthem for the nation, it's an anthem for a benefit scrounger who sits covered in gold and jewels, telling us we have to endure more austerity. 

Bizarre. 

[Albert]

James Maclean should respect the country which employs him and keeps his family safe. If the English national football team disrespected the Irish national anthem in Dublin due to the connivance of the Irish government, clergy and security forces with the IRA during the troubles there would be hell to pay!

He didn't disrespect anything, he just didn't turn to face a flag and join in for an anthem. Stop trying to suggest he did something different from what he did.

Opposition players do nothing but stand there during the other sides' anthem, that is exactly what he did in this "controversy". If he refused to join in on an anthem for a country he played for that would be something different.