James McClean - More Controversy

[robglosta]

The next Joey Barton. 

[Duracell]

Not sure I'd face the British flag either if I was somewhere where our patriotism was Americanised.

A modern footballer standing up for what he believes in, whatever next.

[RLACML]

He's not making a big deal out of it, he's just quietly doing what he believes is right. The abuse he's getting is pathetic. 

[JakartaRam]

McLean is somewhat lucky he lives in a very tolerant society and he is able to show his feelings / distaste without recourse. Ok he has principles , but these are not always best for one's own progress

Should he choose to work in other lucrative countries such as in Asia later in career his views will have to change.

Just an example but ignoring the King of Thailand in the same manner could get him 10 years in jail and Thailand has some awful human rights and corruption issues.

When in Rome James .........  

[AndyinLiverpool]

 

McLean is somewhat lucky he lives in a very tolerant society and he is able to show his feelings / distaste without recourse. Ok he has principles , but these are not always best for one's own progress

Should he choose to work in other lucrative countries such as in Asia later in career his views will have to change.

Just an example but ignoring the King of Thailand in the same manner could get him 10 years in jail and Thailand has some awful human rights and corruption issues.

When in Rome James .........  

To listen to what some people have said about him, you'd think that we actually live in the kind of intolerant sub-mediaeval society that would lock someone up for being insulting.

[Albert]

McLean is somewhat lucky he lives in a very tolerant society and he is able to show his feelings / distaste without recourse. Ok he has principles , but these are not always best for one's own progress

Should he choose to work in other lucrative countries such as in Asia later in career his views will have to change.

Just an example but ignoring the King of Thailand in the same manner could get him 10 years in jail and Thailand has some awful human rights and corruption issues.

When in Rome James .........  

...are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't engage in silent protest because horrifically oppressive backward societies wouldn't allow it? 

[AndyinLiverpool]

...are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't engage in silent protest because horrifically oppressive backward societies wouldn't allow it? 

Yes, I think so

[Guest]

...are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't engage in silent protest because horrifically oppressive backward societies wouldn't allow it? 

I didn't read it like that, to me the poster was just commenting that should he move to another country then the same attitude may get a different outcome. 

 

[Sith Happens]

He's not British so why should he face the British flag?

 

Its the flag of the United Kingdom, not just british. He was born in the United Kingdom.

In fairness, it is upto him what he does, his allegiance is clearly to the ROI rather than his native Northern Ireland, but that can be said about many of the residents of Northern Ireland, if you drive through to Londonderry, or derry whatever you choose to call it, the London is often painted over on road signs.

Its clearly still a very divided community shown by the issues last year when they decided the union flag would only be flown for so many days in belfast...causing a whole different set of issues.

I have worked in Northern Ireland a lot of and couldnt even start to try and understand the problems, which are still ongoing to some degree.

[Minneapolis Town Tractor]

This is an interesting read but can't get a full picture on what this issue is.     Some player from a rival club not showing the desired respect for his national anthem (?)    Vaguely recognize the name but had to glean some more info on the player in question and lo and behold he's not even British.       Bottom line, if he had some issue with the British anthem then all that was needed was to stand in line with everyone else and sit it out and not turn aside and bring (unnecessary) attention on yourself.

Guess there's some level of unorthodox behavior here but nothing to really get in a twist over. 

Edit : Paul 71 has just made a point that I overlooked i.e. Northern Ireland is part of the UK, but the player is capped for the Republic of Ireland so can only imagine there's an answer somewhere along that route.   Once again, only the player has a method to his thinking, it's something he obviously felt sensitive with.

 

[Pearl Ram]

I can't help thinking he's being a bit of a nob as if he's that strong on principles (which I believe is his right ) then why go and earn your living in a country where your taxes will go towards the very thing (the armed forces) that make him protest in the first place ?

England/Great Britain isn't the only place he can ply his trade, it seems to me he quite enjoys the attention his actions bring and to that end (for me) he qualifies for the category of nobdom.

[Albert]

I can't help thinking he's being a bit of a nob as if he's that strong on principles (which I believe is his right ) then why go and earn your living in a country where your taxes will go towards the very thing (the armed forces) that make him protest in the first place ?

England/Great Britain isn't the only place he can ply his trade, it seems to me he quite enjoys the attention his actions bring and to that end (for me) he qualifies for the category of nobdom.

You can go to a country and enjoy your time there, but still have problems with forcing nationalism and ridiculous jingoistic displays into football, which should be entirely apolitical. 

Imagine that you go to Argentina, love the people, the culture, the location and the lifestyle, but in the lead up to a match are forced to join in a chant of "Las Malvinas son Argentinas" pregame. Would you join in? 

[JakartaRam]

Think the question is more do you openly show you are not joining in ?

[Albert]

Think the question is more do you openly show you are not joining in ?

What is the harm in simply standing there while others turn for the anthem? Are there actually people out there so utterly insecure in their nationalism that anyone who doesn't feign an interest in it is someone offensive to them? He literally just stood there. 

By definition, you don't "openly show you're not joining in" you either actively show you are joining in, or you aren't joining in. You can't actively not do something. 

[Pearl Ram]

You can go to a country and enjoy your time there, but still have problems with forcing nationalism and ridiculous jingoistic displays into football, which should be entirely apolitical. 

Imagine that you go to Argentina, love the people, the culture, the location and the lifestyle, but in the lead up to a match are forced to join in a chant of "Las Malvinas son Argentinas" pregame. Would you join in? 

Hmm, I was expecting flak but from another source to be honest and it's a fair enough question you pose even if it's a bit hypothetical, I may or may not find myself in that predicament one day, the fact here is that he IS here protesting (almost on a regular basis) against our armed forces. 

Why ply your trade in a country whose armed forces you detest ? You're a clever man Albert and you will be able to tie me in knots over this but if it's ok with you I'll stick to my gut instinct he's enjoying the attention his actions bring and by earning his living here he is being a bit of a hypocrite. .

[JakartaRam]

I didn't read it like that, to me the poster was just commenting that should he move to another country then the same attitude may get a different outcome. 

 

That is all I meant , no judgement on McLean just that even in 2015 things are still very different across the world.

 

[JakartaRam]

...are you seriously suggesting that people shouldn't engage in silent protest because horrifically oppressive backward societies wouldn't allow it? 

What horrifically backward societies ? 

 

[Albert]

Hmm, I was expecting flak but from another source to be honest and it's a fair enough question you pose even if it's a bit hypothetical, I may or may not find myself in that predicament one day, the fact here is that he IS here protesting (almost on a regular basis) against our armed forces. 

Why ply your trade in a country whose armed forces you detest ? You're a clever man Albert and you will be able to tie me in knots over this but if it's ok with you I'll stick to my gut instinct he's enjoying the attention his actions bring and by earning his living here he is being a bit of a hypocrite. .

The point is though that he's not a member of the armed forces, he's a footballer. Just as people can disagree with the government of their country on matters, anyone can disagree about some point about the country their in. 

There are plenty of people in plenty of countries who love their country, they love the people around them, but detest the such things. It happens, it's something that people should have the right to do. As people have put it, he was born in the UK. He's not some foreigner who has come from the other side of the world and protests loudly in the faces of everyone about how awful the country is as a whole. Rather, he's a UK national who has problems with a very specific point, and peacefully abstains from certain displays to do with it. 

Hypocritical would be to claim to be a modern, free thinking society that has moved past the atrocities of it's past, and equally getting in a huff about people expressing their beliefs peacefully and calmly. 

[Albert]

What horrifically backward societies ? 

 

Any country that would persecute based on such. 

[JakartaRam]

Any country that would persecute based on such. 

And the UK doesn't persecute when it wants ?