StaffsRam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 No, it doesn't. You said 'The issue that James has is that the majority of Northern Irish folks disagree with him'. This is a stand alone statement, not dependent on anything you were replying to. And it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.If McClean's belief is that NI should be "returned" to the Republic, then this view is contrary to the wishes of the people of NI. Clearly I should have stated "if" in my original response, but seeing as there was no question of McClean's position in the original post (where it's stated as fact) then I didn't feel the need.As for relevance - it's about as relevant as stating that McClean wants NI "returned" to the Irish. What's that got to do with his motivations for not wearing a poppy or facing the flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It might not be the issue that prompted him to not face a flag, but you'd have thought it was an issue for him. Perhaps if StaffsRam had said 'another issue McLean has' that would be better? Or alternatively you could stop being anal. Another issue James McClean has is that he struggles to operate his smart television. That's quite possibly true, but like what Staffs said, it has nothing to do with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 If McClean's belief is that NI should be "returned" to the Republic, then this view is contrary to the wishes of the people of NI. Clearly I should have stated "if" in my original response, but seeing as there was no question of McClean's position in the original post (where it's stated as fact) then I didn't feel the need.As for relevance - it's about as relevant as stating that McClean wants NI "returned" to the Irish. What's that got to do with his motivations for not wearing a poppy or facing the flag?Nothing to do with it. I never said it did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Another issue James McClean has is that he struggles to operate his smart television. We might be able to help him with that one at least...is he, perchance, facing the wrong way....? Nothing to do with it. I never said it didJust wondering why I get hauled over the coals for irrelevance when I didn't even set us off down that path, but hey-ho.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 1. This just in, if it doesn't cause a stink in the press, it didn't happen. Are you seriously that ignorant? How many such instances do you think the media can actually spin? Him sitting there quietly during an anthem where he's not forced to face a flag in a position off to the side isn't exactly headline stuff. 2. No, in my experience casual racism isn't "just typical English understatement". This is just a revisit of the usual "everybody says it" line. 3. Top notch argument there. 4. So what you're saying is that you'd be completely fine chanting a bit of 'Las Malvinas Son Argentinas' pregame someday? We could go full Godwin and ask if you'd be comfortable singing 'Das Lied der Deutschen' while saluting a Swastika, but most would get a bit touchy there. There's forgiveness, but some wounds take time, and you are not the judge and jury of when people should "be over it". Maybe you feel feel he's a bit touchy, but equally you're the one having a sook that he had a few extra degrees between him and a flag in some bizarre Americanised ritualistic flag worship ceremony. 1. You need more experience of the British press.2. That is just ridiculous and a tad insulting to such a nice poerson as I.3. Thank you, I thought it was just the answer of someone who is getting bored of getting into arguments that are getting out of hand.4. Ha ha. What I do like though is some of the Anti-British songs sung in the bars of Dublin and Cork, there are some great tunes there with little relevance accept that they are great soulful songs.5. You are getting over worked up about this, why not have a nice glass of milk and put your feet up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 How can people claim with certainty that a silent gesture is attention seeking? It's an absolute nonsense that this is even a discussion. If you think it's attention seeking, ignore it.You don't need words to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringerBell Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Another issue James McClean has is that he struggles to operate his smart television. That's quite possibly true, but like what Staffs said, it has nothing to do with this thread.I don't want to put words in Staffs mouth but I get the impression he was paraphrasing to drive a point home. Although it was a point that diverged from the original topic I admit, this divergent discussion was already taking place and was in someway connected to the topic at hand.However, though I'm quite sure that Staffs doesn't think the primary issue McClean has with a flag is the popularity of his political stance, you actually chose to take his paraphrasing literally and now the conversation has moved onto linguistics as a result. And you're the one that thinks we should keep on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I'm not even sure how polls of what people think in Northern Ireland is relevant here in the slightest. This isn't about whether Northern Ireland should be part of the UK, it's about whether McClean is right and has the right to stand by his beliefs. I'm not entirely sure how StaffsRam thinks it's relevant to the discussion. I guess it makes the point that generally people have moved on in Ulster, even those that were directly or affected by the 'troubles'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You know what they say about decisions and history - they're made by those that turn up. They had a referendum in '73 - the Nationalists decided to boycott it. Wouldn't have mattered though of course, the Pro-UK vote was 59% of the entire electorate.Since 1998 the Northern Ireland Life and Times, in conjunction with Queen's University Belfast and the University of Ulster, have conducted an annual poll asking what Northern Ireland's long-term policy should be. Not one of those polls has ever returned a result for "reunify with the rest of Ireland" higher than 30%. "Remaining part of the UK" has never gone lower than 50%.http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/Further, Mori ran a poll in 2013 asking the question "If there was a referendum tomorrow, what would you vote for?";http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/tv/spotlight/survey.pdfBelfast City, Greater Belfast, Down, Armagh, Tyrone/Fermanagh, Londonderry and Antrim all voted, overwhelmingly to remain part of the UK. The closest result was 55% UK/23% Ireland (Londonderry), the widest margin was 84% UK/13% Ireland (Antrim).This result was consistent across all age groups, and even down to religious background, where more Catholics voted to remain as part of the UK than voted for reunifying with the rest of Ireland.But hey, perhaps these were all wrong and you're right. That is interesting and largely mirrors conversations I have had over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 We might be able to help him with that one at least...is he, perchance, facing the wrong way....? Just wondering why I get hauled over the coals for irrelevance when I didn't even set us off down that path, but hey-ho....I actually didn't notice what Mac had written, at least not at first. I only saw your post when he was replying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I guess it makes the point that generally people have moved on in Ulster, even those that were directly or affected by the 'troubles'.It sounds like you're saying that McClean should get over it. Is this right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffsRam Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I actually didn't notice what Mac had written, at least not at first. I only saw your post when he was replying. Well that's fair enough, I won't hold it against you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 It sounds like you're saying that McClean should get over it. Is this right?I guess that is up to him..... yes please :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLACML Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I guess that is up to him..... yes please :-)Given that you can only change your behaviour, and not his, shouldn't you follow your own advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnram Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Given that you can only change your behaviour, and not his, shouldn't you follow your own advice? Nice manoeuvre To be honest I really don't care a jot what he does. I had a quiet time this afternoon so took the opportunity to throw an argument out there (still think he is a prat though ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamikaze Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Decent article on it here; http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11753541/James-McCleans-flag-snub-starts-an-undignified-race-to-be-offended.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Are you homophobic?so you think the colour pink is immediately an anti-gay thing.wow you are twisted pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 so you think the colour pink is immediately an anti-gay thing.wow you are twisted pet.In conjunction with your comment about the players holding hands and skipping round the centre circle, that's how it comes across. You are using these images to mock McClean for supposedly being over sensitive, another stereotypically gay trait; which is why I asked if you were homophobic. In what way does that make me 'twisted', exactly?Pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Because you make 2+ 2 = 5 and yet you are not slow you project your warped analysis back onto others.we've seen this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRainy Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 So, just to be clear, men holding hands skipping about in front of a pink flag does not sound gay in any way, and to think so is a 'warped analysis'?Whatever you say. Pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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