Highgate Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 How can we judge him on past achievements? Generally speaking, without the aid of crystal balls, that's how all judgements are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Paul Simpson was sacked from the last 3 Football League clubs he managed. Not the record of a 'good manager in his own right'. Similar record to McClaren really, although i know, technically, he walked from Forest after a comical spell in charge. Paul Simpson really hasn't done that badly - really, really hasn't. One of those that sort of built a reputation, and then fell off the side of the earth, anyone remember alan irvine?? He made built a very good side at Carlisle, and put them in league one from non-league. He had to deal with Billy's mess at Preston, and JUST missed out on the play-offs on goal difference despite budgetary cuts, season later had to sell Nugent...etc and couldn't bring anyone in and got sacked for a bad start. At Shrewsbury, I don't know what happened a couple of mid-table finishes and a play-off spot and he was sacked, so I don't know - seems harsh. but he did poor at Stockport, but I think it's fair to say he has been very respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Generally speaking, without the aid of crystal balls, that's how all judgements are made. Yeah, but managers are a special case for me, and have been since we appointed Paul Jewell miracle worker from Wigan and John Gregory from Villa. Managers are like the stock market, their reputation will fluctuate massively. With what he did at United - he was held in high-regard, if yet untried a little in management. With what he did at Boro - he became the first name on everyones lips for the national position. With what he did for England - he had to move country to get a decent job. With what he did for Twente - he got a huge, huge move to then current German champions(?) or at least contenders. With what he did for Wolfsburg - he got a job working in a shed, sorry, I mean a job at Nottingham Forest. With what he did at Forest - he went back to Twente, with still an impressive record - anything close to 50% must be? yet sacked. With what he did at Twente - he went to QPR with 'Arry and built up his reputation in the game away from the spotlight. WIth what he did at QPR - has landed him, perhaps the biggest job he has ever had... It's so unpredictable what is going to happen for me - so, I'm not going to worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hope you are right,didn't see many" foundations" on Saturday,though.Grant and possibly Bryson.Hughes needs urgent attention looked as though he wished he was somewhere else. Think you're trying to identify problems that don't exist. Hughes has not played well in any of the local derbies, they really don't suit him. Doesn't mean he wants to be somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfb Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 How can we judge him on past achievements? As a very strong-pro Clough guy, whenever the argument came up about Clough. I argued the toss, about it doesn't matter what you've come from, or done in the past - it's how you conduct yourself and do here. If you asked me a couple of days ago, I would have said he is a wrong appointment for us! well based on how we have been run before. Yet, on the same day of him signing a contract. He turns up with a WORLD CLASS coach, now, I don't think I am over-exaggerating when I say Steele is world class, and he has managed to get him to come here - nothing short of remarkable IMO, shows he has people in high places, unfortunately something Nigel didn't. On the same day, we've had a player like Joey Barton come out and give a glowing report, again. I don't take this very lightly, Joey Barton is an explosive personality who has blasted previous management through-out his career, coaches...etc and it has to be said, him playing at this level must be doing his head in! Yet, still gives Steve McClaren a glowing review. So we've heard good things, extremely good things on the day. That being said, there is reasons to worry - not so much for the day to day grind, because it sounds like we've got a good'un! But, he had a decent amount of control at Forest and it didn't sit right with him, I mean he signed 5 players (and tried to sign Wesley Verhoek, who now plays for feynoord) and only 1 of them can be considered anything close to a remote success, and even then he leaves other players hungry at dinner (guess who). It sounds like he is our head coach, and that is what he is best at - this is what he became world-wide renowned for and largely why he got the England job in the first place. I hope we can get a DOF in sooner, rather than later - but if the mirror is correct then, Nigel Clough inadvertently has given McClaren his first set of loan targets. Let's just wait and see where we are at Christmas - I think a top 10 finish should be minimum requirement, and no-reason why we shouldn't get that! I expect his coaching record and reputation in the game, opens the doors to the clubs TOP young prospects coming here too - I think people will trust him a bit more than Clough in the outside worlth you say he turns up with a world class coach, i wanted to find out last night who we think had got Simpson and Steele in.... as if it to be believed that schuper Schteve was contacted on Saturday, then he moved very quickly considering he only had talks Monday,NC came with his backroom staff, most managers do, but as he has been out of the 'limelight' for a while i was wondering if maybe this team of Simpson/Steele was presented to him as a 'package' by Rush ? saying that all 3 had history with the club, the fans would like that, etc... and Rush had already got them on board cos they were on board Monday too... I am excited by the 3 S's appointment, and also the draw they will have on talented players who have heard of their reputation, and managers who will be keen to lend their talent to us( i want us to own them, but for now till Jan thats not poss really, but we need players in,so loans maybe the only way, for now ) because of the coaching skill accumulated, i cant wait..... but if who's pulled it together ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loughboroughRAM Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 there's nothing any of us can do about the appointment so best to suck up your pride and get behind him and the team...if you are proper fans of the club then it's imperative that give McLaren a fair crack of the whip before passing judgement, after all in his last spell with the club (albeit as the bald eagles assistant) we enjoyed our best spell in recent history so quit your moaning. Just because he couldn't get a bunch of over paid prima-donnas to play (england and/or forest - take your pick) doesn't mean he will do the same here - his track record otherwise is fairly promising and i imagine he'll have some useful links abroad. McLaren in is my opinion, obviously I was sceptical at first due to his immediate history but beauty is only skin deep as they see, reserve judgement until the end of next season when he's had enough time to build a team and playing style to suit. I know people will want to see instant results this season but lets be realistic its unlikely to happen and I just hope the board give him enough time so we don't become one of those clubs that recycle managers twice a season. COYR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 "I remember that game against Crystal Palace very well, Simmo got one of the goals" Sturridge and Van Der Laan, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Trying to look for positives I took the opportunity to dig out Jim Smith's autobiography and re-read the section on Steve McClaren. TBE basically looked at Steve as his successor, and that was the plan all along, that he would take over from Jim when he retired. SAF came in and poached him and Jim Smith was gutted. In that sense this is a proper "homecoming". He tipped him as having everything it takes to get to "the top" – which of course he did when he got the England job. Yes, he failed, but then so has EVERY England Manager in the past 47 years! He credits McClaren with being the first person to introduce specialist fitness coaches, masseurs and sports psychologists (in fact the example he gives is that Chris Powell's career was saved by the guy that McClaren brought in) He also talks about him introducing the concept of filming every game with multi angle cameras and reviewing them post-match in depth. Jim Smith is also godfather to Steve's kids, so I'd expect to see TBE making a few guest appearances at PPS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 you say he turns up with a world class coach, i wanted to find out last night who we think had got Simpson and Steele in.... as if it to be believed that schuper Schteve was contacted on Saturday, then he moved very quickly considering he only had talks Monday,NC came with his backroom staff, most managers do, but as he has been out of the 'limelight' for a while i was wondering if maybe this team of Simpson/Steele was presented to him as a 'package' by Rush ? saying that all 3 had history with the club, the fans would like that, etc... and Rush had already got them on board cos they were on board Monday too... I am excited by the 3 S's appointment, and also the draw they will have on talented players who have heard of their reputation, and managers who will be keen to lend their talent to us( i want us to own them, but for now till Jan thats not poss really, but we need players in,so loans maybe the only way, for now ) because of the coaching skill accumulated, i cant wait..... but if who's pulled it together ? Has to be McClaren for me - as I previously said, why would steele entertain any championship job? if he tried hard enough he could have got any job in the world! The improvement in careers of De Gea, Van Der Saar...etc were credited to him, De Gea is a worldwide known name - and, improved no end at Man Utd, was praised by every man utd fan (in the know) for his job there, so can imagine when SAF retired and Moyes let him go, he must have had tons of offers yet nothing. Like I said, if Clough was still manager can you imagine Steele coming in as coach? not a chance for me. Doors are now open that just weren't possible before IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When Steele parted company with Man Utd he claimed he was retiring!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 When Steele parted company with Man Utd he claimed he was retiring!! That's what I thought - getting him in is no mean feat. What he has done with De Gea was incredible - Lego has a lot of potential for me, and Grants game could do with re-fining. He'll get the best out of our keepers IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Has to be McClaren for me - as I previously said, why would steele entertain any championship job? if he tried hard enough he could have got any job in the world! The improvement in careers of De Gea, Van Der Saar...etc were credited to him, De Gea is a worldwide known name - and, improved no end at Man Utd, was praised by every man utd fan (in the know) for his job there, so can imagine when SAF retired and Moyes let him go, he must have had tons of offers yet nothing. Like I said, if Clough was still manager can you imagine Steele coming in as coach? not a chance for me. Doors are now open that just weren't possible before IMOAgree with all that bar improving Van Der Saar, he was always a top quality keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 "I remember that game against Crystal Palace very well, Simmo got one of the goals" Sturridge and Van Der Laan, Steve. Easy mistaka to maka, Sturridge and Simpson are very much alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddy1947 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 To say he failed as England manager, can you name any successful England managers. Too many foreign players in the leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateDerby Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Cloughie will be after Woy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 That's what I thought - getting him in is no mean feat. What he has done with De Gea was incredible - Lego has a lot of potential for me, and Grants game could do with re-fining. He'll get the best out of our keepers IMO. That's what I thought - getting him in is no mean feat. What he has done with De Gea was incredible - Lego has a lot of potential for me, and Grants game could do with re-fining. He'll get the best out of our keepers IMO. I've thought (and posted) for a long time our goalie's qualities have declined under the tutelage of the previous coach, it will be interesting to see if they improve in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 ......can you name any successful England managers..... Sir Alfred Ernest "Alf" Ramsey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smiffy Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 To say he failed as England manager, can you name any successful England managers. Too many foreign players in the leagues. Yeah ? one of our problems is we ain`t got enough . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Agree with all that bar improving Van Der Saar, he was always a top quality keeper. He went from being a good premier league keeper to one of the best in the world IMO. hopefully he can do the same with Granty (obviously on a more relative standard) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diddy1947 Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Sir Alfred Ernest "Alf" Ramsey ? Admit he was but thats nearly 50 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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