Macintosh

17 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

To me, a huge number of Morris's decisions seemed to be the kind of reactionary nonsense you hear shouted from the stands, or on a post-match phone-in on Radio Derby.  I'm talking about things like players just needing a kick up the backside (so get Pearson in), we never should have sold Shackell (so let's get him back), Chris Martin doesn't run around enough (so let's get rid of him), that kind of idiot-level analysis. 

The first McClaren sacking felt like the sort of "he won't commit his entire future to Derby, so let's sack him now" stuff that was being heard from those corners.  The second one always felt like someone (probably Sam Rush) talked Morris into appointing McClaren again, Morris was never happy about it (for the same reasons as sacking number 1, probably), and as soon as we had a slight dip in form he got rid so he could have who he had wanted as manager in the first place.

I'm going to take what Colin Gibson said regarding Keogh's influence as gospel. However, if you read Pride, the best book ever on the Rams, here is his interview with Paul Simpson, which I also judge as true:

"But as Simpson remembers it, they wouldn’t be given the chance. Derby’s hand had been forced and with the turning of the supporters, McClaren was sacked. He says, ‘The way it all ended was horrible really. Steve said when the dust was starting to settle, “There’s an opportunity and we could go to Newcastle” but I told him I didn’t want to go. He asked for my opinion and I said, “You have to turn it down. This is where we need to stay.” He thought about it for a while and said, “I’m going to turn it down, as long as we’re able to commit ourselves for the next three years to finish this job.” I was willing to sign another contact. 

‘I know for a fact that Steve turned Newcastle down. I said to Steve, “Look, I’m absolutely knackered. I want to go away with my wife for a couple of days, can I do it?” and he said, “Yeah, go and have some days in Spain.” So, he rang me on the Wednesday night and asked me when I was coming back, which was the next day. “Right, I think I’m getting the sack. I need you to come back.” He turned Newcastle down and then he got the sack.

‘We were left in a situation with nothing. Even when it got to the point that I was still employed, he said to me that Newcastle had come in for him again. When he got the job, he wanted me to come as his assistant and I said, “No. I’m not coming.” I told him I would only go if I got the sack at Derby. I wasn’t leaving Derby.’

Simpson wasn’t made to wait long before returning McClaren’s call.

‘I ended up ringing him one night and said, “Right, I think I’m going in to get the sack tomorrow morning.” And he said, “If they do that, come to Newcastle straight away.” It was all really disappointing though because we felt as though we were going in the right direction even though we had a massive disappointment at the end. We just felt as though we were still going to try and achieve what we wanted with Derby. We all tried everything to make that team a success and make it a successful season but whatever we did, it didn’t work, and we lost our jobs.’ "

I can only conclude that on at least one occasion Keogh is possibly the reason McClaren was shown the door, because I'm still trying to figure out why he was dismissed on both occasions. Colin Gibson needs to expand on Keogh's influence rather than leaving it as it is.

If Everton are relegated they come down with the largest wage bill in the history of football, eight players on over £100k a week and a total in excess of £100m – if these sports' wage sites are somewhat credible. They would be the only club never to be totally covered by Parachute Money. 

Personally, I can't see what benefit it would be if Wayne took over now. Most of their best players would be sold off, those left are not Championship material. A few years down the line, yes, but now after 118 seasons in the top division I can only see a Sunderland in them.

Anton Rippon produced a series on Radio Derby of the glory days, lots of interviews, a must-have for many Rams fans. I'm pretty sure they are holding a 50th anniversary of this gathering soon, old players, Anton and staff invited, they may re-run the series because of this? Derby County: A Complete Record is still available on Amazon, every result, pen pictures, potted history etc for a fiver.

If the EFL is withholding £7m, and that season tickets/attendance would likely raise a similar amount, well that covers half of what the supposed bid has been from Appleby/Kirchner/Ashley/Binnie Family, and that the club will likely be run on a shoestring budget for the foreseeable. Throw in a stadium realistically valued at £30m+ available at a knocked down price, it's not as big a gamble as some make it out to be, especially if Morris can be persuaded to chip in a little towards the Dell debt.

Shaun Barker had a go

Am I reading this right, some 'supporters' here would rather see the club liquidated, over a century of history wiped out? Academy players' dreams of hoping to be the next Plange. Our Rolls-Royce management team of Rooney-Rosenior looking for employment. Players like Buchanan who has black eyes on top of black eyes and gets concussed at least twice a game, they are off to find other teams. Shinnie who cried his heart out when shown the door. And on top of that HMRC, Dell and all other creditors not getting a penny? Pride Park would be flattened and replaced by an Aldi and the training facilities demolished to make way for some Redrow housing estate? It's bad enough that guy Beaufort1 who takes over the DET site saying he'd not go to a game ever again if Morris bought the club out of administration, even though he never goes, but some on here?

If one of the moderators here has any balls, I hope they delete the accounts of those voting liquidation ahead of someone stepping in to save our club. 

Imagine the previous deadline of bids were all similar, at around £30m. It would have been which of the three the administrators had to accept if naming a preferred bidder. This would incur a 15 points deduction. That sum would not pay off the debt to MSD Holdings, nor purchase Pride Park. Ultimately, both Dell and Morris would lose out considerably. So, Morris and Dell upped that bid by turning Dell's debt into shares and Pride Park being co-owned by the two of them. Valuing their bid at approx £50m. Therefore, if Appleby and Ashley wanted to remain in the process they would have to move near that figure. I can see something like this happening, that although Dell and Morris don't want the club it has made the others play a larger hand.

Of all the books written on Derby County, Pride has been the best by a country mile. I thought Pitch's production was wonderful. I do hope the one after this happens to be the present saga, fully explained and dissected, it requires a book, and a properly researched one with heart. I know Pride nearly had an interview with Richard Keogh, but interviews with him, Mel, Alonso, the Sheikh, all those that bid, the administrators, the MPs, players, management, journalists, supporters groups, the new owner(?), EFL etc, would be such a read if it could happen. Players that have departed like Bradley Johnson, Chris Martin and Ikechi Anya would be an interesting insight most would love to learn about.

1 hour ago, winktheram said:

Cracking article that is, thanks for sharing. Don't half make you think. You can see what the bidders are up against, clear the debts but then further on-going funding is needed to just stand still let alone 'go for it'. 

I hope people have read that. Imagine the hike in energy bills happening in football right now. That article from a few years ago stated a £760,000 cost for gas, electricity and water to Boro. Well that now has trebled, and the cost of night matches must be horrendous. How much of this Morris is covering is not known, but every month that goes by the debts rise by £2m, what could have been sold in January for £28 will now be £34m and by season end will be £40m.

10 hours ago, Rev said:

In my opinion, the only attractive thing about being a Phoenix club would be the opposite.

It would give us a chance to be a truly fan owned club, not beholden to the whim and whimsy of a passing businessman, but a truly fan driven project, that spent what it earned and not a penny more.

If that model could only take us so far, and I suspect at this moment it would only be an occasional flirtation with the Championship, so be it. 

It would be our club again, for the first time in many decades.

Our success would depend on our engagement of both the local community, and pulling in fans from farther afield looking for something different in the cesspit of football generally. 

We have a fanatical local fanbase, a fading but still resonant history, a reasonable ground if it can be reunited with the team that currently play in it!

We shouldn't be looking at becoming a Mike Ashley's Newcastle pt II, we should be aiming for an English version of St Pauli.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/money-go-hidden-costs-running-15860716

This article explains the cost of maintaining a ground and training facilities, and the similarities between Boro's and ours is obviously mirrored. They got the costs down to £15.1m. A fan-led consortium could never pay that even if handed the ground for free and the transfer of the training ground lease. It has to be an investor. How many have been involved in cricket, football, darts, table-tennis teams, that when there is a call for volunteers to be fixtures secretary, chairman etc, the whole room goes quiet, that is what fan-led means to me, a few doing it and the rest happy to see it happen. We need Mike Ashley, we need his investment.

1 hour ago, RAM1966 said:

The club is weeks away from possible extintion and your defending the man who has been reckless?

We've paid too much for players, Mel should of given the managers the brief, a mixture of experience while blooding the youth talent.

Tell me, would you wife be annoyed if your continually splashed out on stuff you couldn't really afford, which ultimately led to you losing your home?  I suspect she would and it could mean a marriage break up, akin to liquidation when you think about it!

Defending? Just giving a less simplistic summing up of his time at the helm that I continue to read from many. Similar with wives, not every marriage works out, some fail, but there are great memories that can go along with those times. Maxwell's time here and Lionel Pickering's jolly. All are failed marriages in hindsight, but I loved being a Rams fan back then. It's not as if Morris didn't give notice, the club was for sale for two seasons before the plug had to be pulled, the set budget was considerably exceeded and he was chucking in £3m every month that these administrators will surely appreciate how hard that is to continue doing, even if fans don't.

23 minutes ago, S8TY said:

its not a gesture he's left us in the poo after causing the problem...we were better off with the previous owners!

If you're going to forget all the play-off matches, going to Wembley, breaking the transfer record to bring in Vydra, some wonderful loans and players singed, a youth system bearing fruit and sacking managers because so many fans here said so. Then forget those times, his fortune thrown at this club to chase that dream. But be happy with any new owner and any lack of ambition that may likely follow.

2 hours ago, S8TY said:

We enjoyed the signings because we stupidly and wrongly thought that Morris and DCFC could afford these signings....but if we knew it was putting our club in jeopardy of course we would'nt...

what?? are we supposed to not like every signing because we think the controller/owner/man in charge of our football club is gambling with our future???? No we/ I thought Morris is a business man knows how to run a business so you trust him......only to over spend....not pay the tax man and then walk away....please wake up and smell the coffee mate....its a ludicrous statement to make saying did we like the signings?? of course we did....what we did not know was we had someone slowly sentencing our club to all of this misery.....He was and is responsible for this and he should be giving the stadium back as he's walked away from debt he orchestrated!! fact?

I remember the protracted signing of Jozwiak, many here watching his games for Poland when news broke out we were after him, considering the extra million the price increased to be well worth paying. He was just what Derby needed according to so many and we must sign him. Me, I could not see what everyone else was seeing in him. 

Morris to give the stadium back for nowt, then what, the new owners get a £30m stadium thrown in for a £30m takeover fee. They could probably put the club up for sale the next day for £35m, debt free, and make the profit they hoped by investing, a 15 per cent profit thanks to this generous gesture in a blink. They would be the only winners in this and from what I can gather, the sale of the ground will be to pay off the Dell secured loan.

1 hour ago, Ambitious said:

Are the administrators the ones we should really be kicking? I noticed in the statement released by the Binnies that they were more than willing to buy the club for less than what it would cost to avoid a -15 point deduction next season. Are we really sure that's not currently what they're working against, people wanting to buy the club happy to take the -15 point deduction, and they're buying time trying to avoid that situation. 

I mean, what sort of atmosphere would there be around the club towards a new owner if they happily took a -15 point deduction next season to save a few £ against paying creditors.

Without knowing the ins and outs, but reading the tea leaves, there is a narrative that the administrators are trying to avoid further penalties going forward which obviously impacts fans. I would've thought anyone coming in to buy the club would obviously want to avoid that anyway, but seemingly not. 

But, since the 'we're ready to go' Appleby statement in early January, the administrators have had to take out further [unsecured?] loans with Dell at huge interest rates. That will be adding around £8m [more speculation] to the takeover costs that Ashley had stated he would fund if his bid was accepted, and that's after fire sale of players that raised little towards the running costs it appears. Throw in the free use of the ground, I'm not a fan of these administrators and their achievements at all.

However, a simple statement and a breakdown of costs would solve all this speculation. Is it confidential, especially when the press seem to know exactly what is what.

I wonder if the news that two players can be signed short term contract from Russia until the season end if they are from overseas is something a new owner could be looking at?

53 minutes ago, LERam said:

Can someone explain why Q have even hosted those two in hospitality.

I've backed them all the way to do a job, but I don't see how them hosting celebs (or even attending themselves) helps them do their job??? Unless said celebs are involved and adding some value in any way?

Genuine question, why?

On the radio today, a caller phoned in with a proposal to end the Russia–Ukrainian war. Noting that Putin is a huge Beatles fan he suggested McCartney and Ringo do a free concert at the Kremlin if they agree to pull out. Maybe something similar is being planned to soften the deal with Ashley, meet Angelina and One Direction get back together for a one-off Pride Park concert.

Asterisks.

I'm thinking Tom would like to stay here beyond his contract ending and is willing to take a huge pay cut. Never have Derby fans valued him more than now. However, when he said if it helps the club by moving he'll do it, there could be the option of someone buying him in this Window, and loaning him back to us until the season end, that's a possibility and sometimes happens, like Spurs did with Tom Huddlestone. Obviously, if it was Newcastle or Burnley that would not be the case.

I remember him as a left-footed right-winger when he played European games, not quite a Riyad Mahrez, because he tackles back a lot more, but lovely close control and looks to cross.

Durban, Webster, Rhodes, Young, O’Kane, Ferguson, Hughes, Curry, Hopkinson, Mansfield, Matthews, Waller, Richardson, Roby, Rowe, Clevely, Daniel, Barrowcliffe, Cholerton, Parry, Saxton, Boulton, Ward, Wright.

All these are still available from the northbridgepublishing.co.uk website.

On 20/05/2018 at 20:53, Bob The Badger said:

I used to spend hours pouring over this one. I wish they'd update it.

It got updated twice. The last one was 2006 by Gerald Mortimer. A funny story about this cover, a transparency had been chosen from Raymonds News Agency, a lovely action image of Alan Hinton volleying the ball, everyone thought it worthy of the jacket. Then we looked closely and found out it was Steve Wicks.

I wonder if it is possible to call off administration? It just seems a bigger mess now than it was a month ago, and the administrator's costs are killing us.

There are three, maybe four interested parties now to talk to that weren't around before, nearly all the debt has to be paid anyway, so would it make sense for Mel to start afresh, call off administration, get the 12 points back and increase our chances of staying up? Put everyone out of their misery, him especially. 

He could offer a percentage of the stadium to Dell for that debt, pay off HMRC with his own money, even try a deal still, and then one of the interested parties takes on the rest, they get the club for approx £30million-ish? That would make it a more interesting proposal for all. Morris saves face and still has a part share in the stadium. Surely, somewhere, there is a low-interest loan for £28million to be found?

Or even a share issue, offered to all parties, discounted to Dell.

Is that allowed, you can backtrack, call the whole thing off? The EFL did on Jack Marriott, and the Maikel Kieftenbeld transfer from Birmingham. All those owed money would then get paid in full, including this site.

17 minutes ago, Unlucky Alf said:

"with the vice-chairman of West Ham, Karren Brady, vocally defending the parachute payment system. Arguing that clubs would go bankrupt without the money, she wrote in the Sun that Tracey Crouch had “fallen into a do-gooder trap” by proposing reform. “Maybe Tracey and [EFL chair Rick] Parry confuse competition with fairness,” she wrote"

It's fair if the parachute payments are shared by other clubs, There is NO! competition when other clubs start off with a war chest of 10s of millions when relegated.

The smaller clubs in the Premier who fight against relegation most seasons will be against this proposal...imo

It makes sense if the relegated clubs get promoted the next season because it saves the PL two further parachute payments. It also makes sense to loan the better players to the relegated teams because it improves their chances. They certainly will be hopping mad if a team like Newcastle went down and they won't be happy Brentford are spoiling the party right now.