DB83

I very rarely comment on here. I very rarely view here in fact, I don’t know why… perhaps it can be just a little depressing here at times. Maybe I’m too much Mr. Grumpy. But I saw the news on Twitter on Sunday and immediately looked for this thread. And reading all the tributes really made cry, because whether we posted here 10 times per day, or 10 times per decade, we still all knew of B4. I wasn’t even going to comment, but gosh, sometimes a person you didn’t even know really gets to you. Sometimes you just see the person you wish you could be, and I know that B4 was the first to commiserate when any other forum member had a loss, so I just wanted to join the chorus of forum members in thanking B4 for his wonderful contributions, his passion, his positivity, and his brilliant outlook on life. He has contributed to DCFC life in a way that few of us fans ever will. B4, you will be sorely missed by many many people. Rest well.

52 minutes ago, vonwright said:

Ah, come on. Davies was the last manager to get us promoted to the Premier League, and when he got there found out a) he didn't have the squad or the tactics to compete and b) there wasn't any money to buy better players.

Yes we were awful that year, and yes Davies didn't exactly cover himself in glory with some of the things he said when he left.

But he isn't a worse Derby manager than Nigel Pearson.

 

Billie Davies is the only manager to have got us promoted in the last 27 years… he may have left an awful legacy, but his achievement is undeniable.

Is this thread not talking about this goal (I know it was posted already, but this has Graham Richard’s commentary)??

“Hitting it from 35 yards” may be a slight exaggeration though.

4 hours ago, Andicis said:

The pizza cup is not important. The results are almost entirely meaningless. It's a game to play youth and try out different things, winning or losing doesn't really matter. I find it unlikely you think that or the very early stages of the Carabao are important.

It's not so much that I'm determined to discredit Rosenior, more that people keep making claims that he was integral to recruitment when there is little evidence to back the claim up. Most of the groundwork would have been done long before Rosenior was interim head coach as we knew long before our position.

Again, I'm not going to credit anyone with pizza cup wins. I can't remember the exact details of either of those games, but that was the overwhelming feeling I had at the time. I didn't have much faith in us winning away under Rosenior at any point.  A quick scan of Google tells me we had 2 shots on target Vs Charlton but that it was a somewhat even game. Almost certainly should have beaten Fleetwood, but we didn't. Shrewsbury and Lincoln were abject.

I don't think Rosenior has had more than a minor role in our success personally. I don't believe he was the massively responsible party for recruitment maybe he was, but I struggle to believe it wasn't months of planning in advance. What is there to downplay? From a performance point of view, not great. Whether you believe he somehow recruited all of these players by himself is not really public knowledge.

A final note to sign off on would be to question why if you are so well intended you would deliberately have chosen misleading statistics on your original post? Not exactly supportive of the current manager is it?

I'm sorry you don't feel that the EFL Cup or EFL Trophy are important. I utterly disagree with that.

Did you see the packed City Ground tonight for the EFL Cup semi-final first leg?? Forest fans were so deflated to have lost that match (lol). Did you hear Bolton fans last weekend singing about going to Wembley?? They are still only in the EFL Trophy semi-final, but they clearly want to be there in the final (and before you call them a tin-pot club, they were knocking Atletico Madrid out of Europe not that long ago). Paul Warne even won the EFL Trophy last season, so don't tell me he doesn't think it matters.

Were you there when Derby beat Stoke City in the quarter-final and Manchester United in the first leg of the semi-final of the EFL Cup back in 2008/2009?? Definitely amongst the top nights this century. And my grandparents regularly used to talk about the BEST EVER atmosphere at the Baseball Ground, which was a League Cup replay win against Chelsea (3-1) back in 1968. The whole Clough and Taylor era arguably began that night. And I know others on this forum will remember that match. That's how important the EFL Cup is.

So, this is my response to your first (two line) paragraph. You are wrong. The EFL Cup and EFL Trophy are important. I may or may not respond to your other four paragraphs tomorrow. In the meantime, please feel free to tell me the ("deliberately misleading") facts I've quoted that are wrong. I'm supportive of Warne. I just cannot understand why you (and others) are so unable to appreciate the vital role that Rosenior has played in our success this season.

32 minutes ago, Brailsford Ram said:

Stick to league games, under Rosenior we played four, drawing two, losing two and winning none.

The draws at Morecambe and Burton were while had started the current unbeaten run but it was still a transitional period from Rosenior's to Warne's system. Since then, results suggest we may have completed the transitional period and winning games where previously we might have drawn them has now become a habit. The next few weeks will give us a better idea as to whether or not that is true. We now average two points per game under Paul Warne which over a season usually ensures automatic promotion. To my mind we never looked like achieving that under Rosenior under whom we did not face Ipswich, Plymouth, Sheffield Wednesday or Bolton - just Barnsley who now are sixth.

I barely disagree with anything you say. But, were the Charlton, Shrewsbury and Fleetwood away games not a transitional period from "our club is dead" to "we still exist and can compete"?? I think Rosenior deserves the benefit of a transitional period too (the Lincoln away game was obviously bad though).

Also we did face Plymouth under Rosenior, and we lost in the last minute due to a catastrophic Cashin error.

My only point is that we started decently under Rosenior, and I will stand up to anyone who tries to downplay his role in our success this season.

23 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

My bad for not reading back further! I just took the post at face value, sorry. 

No need to apologise!! After all, it's all just our own opinions ?

3 hours ago, Andicis said:

i) Rosenior did not win 7 league games.

ii) In Warne's first few games he had some of the tougher games too as in the first 12, he had to play Ipswich away, Portsmouth away when they were flying and the Wendies.

iii) He (DB83 EDIT: Warne) also didn't get a preseason to get to know the players and was thrown straight into the action.

iv) How do you know Rosenior put this squad together and Rooney had no influence prior to that on summer plans?? 

v) Of course nobody can say whether Rosenior would have improved the form, but we didn't look capable of getting a win away for love or money or really capable of scoring many goals or creating chances. 

i) Correct. He won 4 league games from 9. Exactly the same as Warne in his first 9 league games.

ii) This is entirely objective. Also, the Sheff Wed game was not in the first 9 League games (it was Warne's 10th league game in charge). Please be consistent if you want to criticise me for including first team games in the FA Cup, EFL Cup, and EFL Trophy in my statistics. Personally, I think those competitions are important as well.

iii) Because of course Rosenior had the perfect smooth and stress-free pre-season, right??

iv) I'm sure Rooney did have some influence, but why shouldn't Rosenior leverage the influence of a Derby manager who was so loved that he was awarded Freedom of the City. The point is that most of the players who are doing so well right now were signed when Rosenior was in charge. Why are you so determined to discredit his role here??

v) This is your opinion of course but I think it is utter nonsense. We won at Mansfield (yes I know, ELF Cup, but Warne couldn't win there in the EFL Trophy), and can you seriously re-watch the games at Charlton and Fleetwood and claim that "we didn't look capable of getting a win away for love or money or really capable of scoring many goals or creating chances". I totally disagree with that, I think we created many chances in both of games and could easily have emerged victorious.

I am not criticising Warne (or indeed you!!). I think he's doing an amazing job, and I hope it can continue for the rest of the season and beyond. I just don't understand people like yourself who seem so determined to downplay and undermine the role that Rosenior has had in our current success.

4 hours ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

“Cost us” in what sense? Did I sleep through Feb, March and April?!
The season isn’t finished yet, we’re 4th in the league on 50 points with 19 games to play, forget the hypothetical Warne vs Rosenior arguments, both managers, their staff and all the players who have taken to the field so far this season have contributed to that. 
We “could” still go up as one of the two autos, we “could” still go up via the play offs, and we “could” miss out. None of that is written yet and we’re in the lovely position of being able to enjoy what’s happened so far, what is happening currently and what is still to happen, we haven’t been “cost anything”….and not just cause the EFL have our wallet under lock and key. 

This was in response to a post a few pages back claiming that the "slow start" under Rosenior might be what costs us automatic promotion. I was pointing out that actually it might be the "slow start" (4 wins from 12) under Warne that potentially (but of course only speculatively) could ultimately have cost us automatic promotion. I'm basically trying to rebut the anti-Rosenior sentiment displayed by a minority of posters on here who to blame him that we aren't top already.

5 hours ago, Carnero said:

Yawn... not in the league we didn't, as repeated ad infinitum ?

14 points from 9 games under Rosenior.

36 points from 18 games under Warne.

To compare their stats and STILL try to twist them in favour of Rosenior is utterly ludicrous.

Why are you assuming that the team wouldn't have gotten better over time under Rosenior though?? Yes, 14 points from 9 league games under Rosenior, but 15 points from the first 9 league games under Warne. Hardly a massive improvement, was it?? We've got better since then, but we may well have got better with Rosenior still in charge too. The desperation of people on here to prove that Rosenior was rubbish is just so disappointing IMO. We are where we are now because of a) great player recruitment by Rosenior and b) good team improvement (eventually) by Warne, but it isn't clear to me that b) couldn't also have been achieved by Rosenior. That's all I'm saying.

5 hours ago, The Last Post said:

Not a chance in hell...imo

Charlton 1 DCFC 0

Shrewsbury 0 DCFC 0

Fleetwood 0 DCFC 0

Lincoln 2 DCFC 0

4 games 0 goals for in the above LR games, Warne came in and had to re calibrate everything plus the kitchen sink, He's on record as saying our fitness is higher than under LR, PW has had cunning plan Bs where under LR we didn't have one, We'll never ever know how LR would have performed if he'd still been here...but one thing I'll put my sombrero on...we'd have lost that game last night.

LR assembled a group of players, PW  has moulded them into a physical force  

How are draws at Morecambe, Burton and Torquay any better than draws at Shrewsbury and Fleetwood though?? All I'm saying is that I think our away record would have improved under Rosenior in the same way that it has done under Warne. It's impossible to know, of course, but after the nightmare of last season I don't think 1W 2D 2L from the first 5 away matches is as horrific as people make it out to be.

Given that we won 7 out 12 games under Rosenior, and only 4 of the first 12 games under Warne, it's arguably the management change and subsequent slow start under Warne that has cost us this season. No-one can know whether we'd be doing equally well or even better if we'd stuck with Rosenior. But let's not forget that this squad of players was entirely assembled by him, so he deserves an awful lot of credit and thanks for that.

This is not to say that I think Warne is doing badly or hasn't improved the team though, because he clearly has. But Rosenior may have done too.

8 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

I might be talking about same game but got wrong team!

This game??

Interestingly, Sunderland were 8 points behind us after this game, but managed to comfortably overtake us by the end of the season... so closing an 8 point gap is definitely possible.

14 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

I'm pretty sure that it is the Clough promotion season of 1968-69:

P42 W26 D11 L5 F65 A32 Pts 63

With 3 points for a win that would now equate to 89 points from 42 games. So, say 96 or 97 from 46 games.

If this team hits that, it can only afford to drop 10 or 11 more points but I think it would be certain for automatic promotion.

BTW, the Clough team after five games had drawn three and lost two and sat in the relegation zone. It went top of the table for the first time on November 30th but remained top for the rest of the season. It was a very special side, who several national pundits at the time said was the best Second Division side ever.  In its last 11 games, it won 10 and drew one. It was my favourite season out of 62. Three months before he died, Cloughie told me that was his own favourite season because the Second Division championship was the first trophy he had won as a player or manager. With Todd and Gemmill replacing Mackay and Carlin, that team became Champions of England just three years later.

It's a tall order for this team to reach the points numbers we are talking about but after tonight I don't rule it out just yet because it's getting better all the time.

COYR

Brilliant, thanks!! Interesting to think what would happen if, say, we only drop 11 more points, but that includes losses against Plymouth, Sheff Wed and Ipswich... it's crazy to think we could hit 90+ points and still not go up. But, good problems to have.

2 minutes ago, SKRam said:

So ‘only’ 19 games left, feels like the run in has begun. 16 W 2 D and 1 L will see us reach 100 pts . I’m being realistic and allowed us one defeat somewhere, it’s only fair 

I should know this but what is our highest ever points total for a league season?? And could we beat it this season and still potentially not go up??

On 23/01/2023 at 19:24, Donnyram said:

I have to confess, I’ve watched Derby at Wembley 4 times…….. Anglo Italian Cup final (Cremonese?), Play offs versus Leicester, QPR and Villa - lost all 4.

The only games at Wembley I’ve missed….. FA Cup final v Charlton, Charity Shield v West Ham and Play Off v WBA……. Won them all.

Financial bribes not to go this year if we get there invited ?

Whip round to get these guys as far away from Wembley as possible (e.g. to Australia or perhaps even Mars) over the Play-off final and/or FA Cup final weekends?? ?

4 minutes ago, CBRammette said:

Thought it was one of those nights but when we got one just knew we would get another. Worried Dobbin would be bullied out of it- love his attitude - always has a go and always keeps going when others' heads would go down or start bring petulant. Get people moaning at misses but he is so young and doing a good job generally. Have noticed how Didzy seems to have taken him under his wing - what more could he want. Totally changed the result - how important could those points be later in the season. Excellently timed subs. Just hope Everton cant/dont recall him

I just watched the highlights again and thought the exact same thing... when Dobbin had his really pretty bad miss, McGoldrick was right there still encouraging him and making sure his head didn't go down. I think that was really impressive from McGoldrick (and of course a very impressive response afterwards from Dobbin too).

10 minutes ago, Elwood P Dowd said:

It’s beginning to feel a lot like 1967 when the ex Hartlepool manger came to manage the Rams. At first everything remained the same but after a time everyone knew something special was happening. 

Calm down... we were three minutes away from losing 1-0 at a pretty poor Port Vale team, missing our opportunity to cut the gap to Sheffield Wednesday, and still being 11 points adrift of promotion from Division 3. Scroll back 10-15 pages and see how things were going, it certainly wasn't the second coming of Clough and Taylor.

I do hope you're right though!! ?

7 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

f****** love the inbetweeners too

It was a good TV show but what's it got to do with Port Vale away?? ?

Just now, Mr Tibbs said:

Tbf he's just missed another sitter. ?

It was not a sitter.

Dobbin so unlucky not to score there.

Very exciting, but it is not all over yet.

51 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:

Wigan?

Leicester??

18 minutes ago, jono said:

I confess I was nervous before the game. They had been on a good run, had a tight defence and, bar the shouting our equals in the ranking stakes. Then you know they have skilled bruisers in attack, Cash injured and Curtis not match sharp. It was going to be tough. A real test.

I think we were slightly fortunate that our defensive injuries also coincided with their best striker (Bodvarsson) sustaining a season-ending injury earlier in the week. Probably didn't make a huge difference, but perhaps just made things slightly easier than they might have been for us.

2 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Of course people are behind Warne now.

Why wouldn’t you be when we are comfortably in the top six and unbeaten for months?

The mood and the reaction to his appointment in the early stages was quite hostile in some quarters, let’s not pretend otherwise.

It was hostile because he was replacing an already good, and young, manager. Hull are well up the league since Rosenior joined them, only one loss since he arrived in October. Remember, Warne has signed no-one yet. All of our current "success" (and we're still miles behind automatic promotion, btw) is due to the squad assembled by LR.

58 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Last year there were 6 televised 4th round games. If that's the case this year, we may well not make the cut:

1 Preston North End v Tottenham Hotspur ??
2 Southampton v Blackpool
3 Wrexham v Sheffield United ??
4 Ipswich Town v Burnley
5 Manchester United v Reading
6 Luton Town or Wigan Athletic v Grimsby Town
7 Derby County v West Ham United ??
8 Stoke City v Stevenage
9 Blackburn Rovers v Forest Green Rovers or Birmingham City
10 Walsall v Leicester City ??
11 Sheffield Wednesday v Fleetwood Town ??
12 Manchester City v Oxford United or Arsenal
13 Bristol City or Swansea City v Chesterfield or West Bromwich Albion
14 Brighton & Hove Albion v Liverpool or Wolverhampton Wanderers
15 Fulham v Sunderland
16 Boreham Wood or Accrington Stanley v Cardiff City or Leeds United ??

I'd say the 3 games in bold are a given, even though they shouldn't be. Then there are 6 more matches with a decent claim. Do we make the top 3 of those? If televised, last time around around it was worth £110k at this stage, though I don't know if that was for the home side or split between home and away? I doubt Karen Brady would waive the fee in this case, though ex Ram hubbie Paul might whisper in her ear?

I'm sorry but why would Sheffield Wednesday v Fleetwood be a candidate for TV??